15:05:51 #startmeeting 15:05:51 Meeting started Thu Nov 17 15:05:51 2011 UTC. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:05:51 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 15:06:03 #topic Post Ubuntu Developer Summit Update 15:06:08 Pendulum, are you here? 15:06:27 yep 15:07:48 Pendulum, well, in that case this is your topic ;) 15:07:54 October 21 - November 4 was the Ubuntu Developer Summit to plan for the 12.04 release (Precise Pangolin) 15:07:58 http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings#Agenda_for_the_Next_Meeting_.2817_November.29 15:08:21 This is an LTS release for Ubuntu so instead of having major changes, the goal is really to polish things 15:08:54 At UDS this time around we had 4 accessibility related sessions: testing, community work/advocacy, development polish, and kubuntu a11y 15:09:33 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-accessibility-team-testing 15:10:15 So, finally in. 15:10:16 That has the blueprint and notes from the testing session. We're going to try to up testing, make it clearer to non-a11y team members how to help with testing, and try to get in some clear usability testing as well 15:10:50 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-accessibility-polish 15:11:07 Those are the blueprint and notes from the development polish session 15:11:33 A lot of this was about bugfixing and getting the user experience as close as possible between Unity 2D & Unity 3D 15:11:48 We're also trying to figure out how to fix the lack of magnification issue 15:12:20 ubuntu doesn't use gnome shell, right Pendulum? 15:12:28 Pendulum, do you know if there is someone working on that? 15:12:36 clown: right 15:12:37 clown: right, it's Gnome 3 underneath and Unity for the shell 15:12:43 clown, they have unity3d and unity2d 15:12:49 unity3d is a compiz plugin 15:12:52 clown; right, but it can be install from Ubuntu Software Center 15:12:57 unity2d is a qt thing 15:12:59 or even apt-get if you want 15:13:08 I'm trying to get confirmation from the Unity team of whether they can make the fixes necessary for 3D to allow the use of eZoom, but in the meantime Luke is planning on creating a profile that will bring in eZoom to Unity 2D 15:13:14 for any reason eZoom (other compiz plugin) doesn't work fine with Unity3D 15:13:38 because the issue in 3D is that there was an intentional choice in developing 3D to not let other compiz plug-ins effect the Unity dash, launcher, and panel 15:14:13 but 2D doesn't use Compiz for its elements so that blog isn't in there and eZoom should work fine in a 2D environment 15:15:03 hmm, curious 15:15:12 *block 15:15:22 ok, Pendulum anything else here? 15:16:06 Not really for that. I'd like to quickly overview the community a11y session, but that's quick 15:16:20 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-accessibility-team-community-goals 15:16:45 ok, thanks Pendulum 15:16:49 people, questions, doubts? 15:16:54 has the notes, etc. from the one about communite. We talked a little more about testing, researching more into use cases for people with learning/developmental disabilities, and doing more advocacy 15:17:10 I'm done now other than questions :-) 15:18:25 I think is always great to teach people about a11y questions like how to test if their app is accessible. It can helps a lot people 15:18:26 (The links have far more information that I was going to try to put in here) 15:20:22 Pendulum, yes I guess that questions would arise when people start to read the information at those links 15:20:43 Oh, the other quick note is that I started talking to people at UDS about an advocacy project I'm trying to start which I'm currently calling Accessibility from the Start, which I'm hoping will ultimately be something that encourages and provides support for people to incorperate accessibility in their design and development from the beginning, rather than as something added on when they think of it later 15:20:49 but in general, did you have a good feeling at the UDS? 15:21:05 did you see UDS as something positive? 15:21:38 I think we made some good steps. I think we pulled in some important people to support getting things done 15:21:56 there is some extra emphasis as it is an LTS release 15:21:58 I'm hesitant to be unequivically positive about things until I see that support really in action 15:22:12 Pendulum, yes true 15:22:43 But we've got the release manager, technical architect, OEM manager, and several other people pushing to make sure a11y is done right this cycle 15:22:43 so, can i move to next item? 15:22:47 yes 15:22:48 s/item/topic 15:23:10 Pendulum, good for the former, ok for the latter 15:23:13 so lets move 15:23:15 Where's the agenda? (I dropped in later) 15:23:28 MrChrisDruif: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings 15:23:39 exactly 15:23:45 http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings#Agenda_for_the_Next_Meeting_.2817_November.29 15:23:58 #topic Hackfest Update 15:24:04 #info Nothing new 15:24:23 #info just say that API started to ping people in order to know the best week to organize the event 15:24:45 #info at this moment the best options are w02, w03 and w04 (2012 of course) 15:25:06 done with that 15:25:22 you are free to put your availability here ;) 15:25:41 fregl, Company mgorse 15:25:58 Is Hackfest a lot local/US thing or can other countries also participate? 15:25:59 if you don't know right now, you just can answer that mail later 15:26:00 Sorry for not answering the email yet. Any of those dates are okay with me. We should decide soon so that people can start getting visas and such. 15:26:07 i'll answer the mail later 15:26:20 i think every week is fine with me but want to check with gf first 15:26:21 MrChrisDruif, in fact it is planned to be organized in Coruña (Spain) 15:26:26 (I don't even know what the Hackfest is exactly, but it sounds interesting) 15:26:32 but initially the idea is being a really focused hackfest 15:26:41 it is not a general a11y purpose hackfest 15:26:47 it is a atk/at-spi hackfest 15:26:52 focus is good... 15:26:54 a follow-up of the prevoius one 15:27:03 clown, so is caret tracking :P 15:27:14 MrChrisDruif, fyi https://live.gnome.org/Hackfests/ATK2011/ 15:27:16 joanie: oh, well done. LOL 15:27:26 Thanks API =) 15:27:37 joanie: can i drop the focus code from gtk then and you do caret tracking instead? ;) 15:27:54 Company, absolutely! :P 15:27:54 ok, so as Im done, more questions and doubts? 15:28:14 I'll have a read later 15:28:20 * API reminds that the other thing to review is all that text stuff, boundaries and all that funny thing 15:28:32 ok, so as Im done, more questions and doubts? 15:28:51 * Company is waiting for the "misc" section of this meeting btw 15:29:50 Almost there Company 15:29:52 * API misc section is our favorite section, definitively it requires a theme song 15:30:02 ok, so as people are silent, 15:30:06 lets move to next topic 15:30:17 #topic Marketing and Fundraising 15:30:20 jjmarin11, ? 15:30:40 ok 15:30:47 #info I haven't any result about the FoG to bring in the meeting. 15:31:18 #info I'm in convesation with Karen Sandler about the ammount of money to raise, her approval of our FoG goal , FoG accounts, web progress bar, etc 15:31:45 I hope to get news from her pretty soon 15:32:07 no more news, questions ? 15:32:51 no from my side, but good work 15:33:36 ok :-) , so I think we can go next 15:34:17 ok, well, today we were really fast, but I suspect that we will have a long misc time 15:34:37 so 15:34:44 #topic Miscellaneous time 15:34:50 o/ 15:34:50 for the new people 15:35:02 o/ 15:35:04 #info GTK just got a big overhaul of treeview accesssibilty support. Please test, it's considered to be backported to 3.2 15:35:05 we use this time to talk about things not included on the agenda 15:35:26 but ideally people should add things to agenda if they plan to talk about long things ;) 15:35:50 Company, a little question about that, 15:35:53 i'm done unless there are questions :) 15:35:55 Yeah, understandable =) 15:36:00 with this new overhaul 15:36:20 is treeviewaccessible accessing to private stuff of treeview? 15:36:30 yes 15:36:38 ok, good 15:36:53 with this overhaul treeviewaccessible became smaller? 15:36:59 i added an internal interface between treeview and accessible 15:37:20 not a lot yet, there's more things missing 15:38:00 but it would get smaller if i did those, too 15:38:13 Company: Does that mean there are more a11y commits coming? Are they also going to be backported to 3.2? Or just what you've committed so far? 15:38:14 but i have no idea yet how to... 15:39:03 mgorse: that's all unclear as (a) I don't know what i'll do yet and how intrusive it's gonna be and (b) the usefulness of those changes 15:39:21 mgorse: i'm not really keen on backporting unless it fixes really important issues 15:42:39 ok, I guess that this silent means that Company doesn't have anything to add 15:42:48 and that people doesn't have anything to ask about this 15:43:04 so, any other want to add something here 15:43:07 at misc time? 15:43:09 me 15:43:15 go on please 15:43:45 once upon a time there was planet-a11y.net which was an aggregator of feeds on accessibility 15:44:24 aha, yes, we talked briefly about that some meetings ago 15:44:55 that kind of broke and got taken down, I spoke to the maintainer (Bryen Yunashko) back in May and after an initial enthusiastic response my followup emails offering help didn't seem to result in much happening 15:45:01 what we said on that meeting was basically that as the planet would require a overhead was not a priority, and just that poeple should post more 15:45:08 but if you have the energy to start it... 15:45:10 so this weekend I messed about with planetvenus and got something up and running 15:45:22 http://planeta11y.org/ is up and running 15:45:30 AlanBell, but did you get the domain from Bryen? 15:45:35 I thought that was managed by him 15:45:48 I registered a new domain, felt it was better as a .org anyway 15:46:07 I will follow up with bryen and see if he still has the .net domain and wants to point it at that 15:46:25 totally fine with bringing him in as an admin of the site, or anyone else who wants to collaborate on it 15:46:36 I just wanted the thing to exist 15:47:00 so, at this time I am looking for feedback on the design, and in particular the accessibility of the site 15:47:05 plus feeds to add 15:47:27 I don't want to restrict it to being a free software only thing, any accessibility focussed feeds are good 15:48:11 * API notices that there is also a little change on the name planet-a11y => planeta11y, but that doesn't seems too relevant 15:48:40 there were problems in the past due to feeds breaking the accessibility of the site, I think I can fix any problems like that with the xslt filters should that arise again 15:49:12 yeah, I felt planeta11y was better than the hyphenated name, and it was available, so I invested $6.99 to get it :) 15:49:52 AlanBell, what is the way to being added to the planet? a direct mail to you? 15:50:00 yes, mail to me 15:51:09 ok 15:51:45 I think this planet can be very useful to be informed about the a11y efforts. I'd prefer a only free software thing, because gnome is promoting the free software values. 15:53:26 AlanBell, ok, thanks for the information 15:53:31 anything else? 15:54:03 AlanBell: re: accessibility: you could use an a11y checker like this one: http://achecker.ca. That would be helpful. 15:54:03 jjmarin11: an interesting point, would be interested in further feedback on that 15:54:23 clown: I did try a few already, thanks for that link 15:54:32 But for me is good if the non free software is not the main topic, as I think it is (for example, a free software that runs in Windows) 15:54:33 AlanBell: wlcm 15:56:39 well, it seems that AlanBell has finished 15:56:44 we still have some minutes 15:56:57 yes, I am done, happy for further discussion after the meeting though 15:57:00 someone want the lsat shot? 15:57:08 someone want the last shot? 15:57:37 * clown bang! 15:58:00 arghhh, don't shot in the meeting room 15:58:44 jjmarin11: you have nothing to worry about. you are a zombie. 15:59:15 ok, taking into account that the dawn of the dead has started 15:59:16 oh, yes, I forgot that part :-) 15:59:20 it is a good time to close the meeting 15:59:22 According to movies/games, he should worry for bullets in the head apparently 15:59:23 #endmeeting