1 14:36:31 <API> #startmeeting
   2 14:36:31 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Sep 22 14:36:31 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 14:36:31 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 14:36:44 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
   5 14:37:01 * API still wants subtopics
   6 14:37:04 <API> anyway
   7 14:37:14 <API> #info 1.1 CSUN Presentations
   8 14:37:17 <joanie> API I'll try to hack those in during my "break"
   9 14:37:41 <API> someone sent a mail to the ml
  10 14:37:42 <API> right?
  11 14:37:43 <API> joanie, ?
  12 14:37:44 <joanie> and since I added CSUN there.... Any objections jjmarin to my starting?
  13 14:37:52 <jjmarin> nop
  14 14:38:12 <joanie> #info A monthish ago Joanie sent a message to the gnome-accessibility-list pointing out that call for papers was about to open.
  15 14:38:48 <joanie> #info At team meetings around that same time, the conclusion was made that we would not have a CSUN booth, but instead attempt to send people who were speaking.
  16 14:39:08 <joanie> #info Call for papers is CLOSING 30 September.
  17 14:39:24 <joanie> #info Joanie is *thinking about* submitting something.
  18 14:39:32 <joanie> Anyone else planning on submitting papers?
  19 14:39:48 <joanie> (or should we not plan on CSUN this year?)
  20 14:39:53 <joanie> (done)
  21 14:40:23 <API> well, in my case, I thought that any other would be more interested than me
  22 14:40:37 <API> I don't know if this is the case for the others, and we are in a deadlock
  23 14:41:11 <joanie> clown: you planning on CSUN for work or for paper proposals?
  24 14:41:27 <clown> joanie:  no, I haven't come up with anything.
  25 14:41:59 * joanie nods
  26 14:42:01 <clown> one of my co-workers is probably going
  27 14:42:01 <API> clown, and you plan to do that?
  28 14:42:20 <clown> API, not unless I think of something in the next couple of days.
  29 14:42:22 <clown> ;-)
  30 14:42:41 <jjmarin> :-)
  31 14:42:43 <joanie> well, I wanted to check the climate. I think I've done that.
  32 14:42:57 <API> well, not all the people are present
  33 14:43:06 <API> so I guess that it is just about sending a ping to the ml
  34 14:43:09 <clown> back to "my co-worker":  he works on Tecla, and he's going to present something on that (I think...)
  35 14:43:26 <joanie> the rest not being here because they are busily writing their paper proposals, right API? :-P
  36 14:43:36 <joanie> but yeah, re the ml
  37 14:43:56 <API> joanie, I mean that there are not too many others options about this
  38 14:43:57 <joanie> #action Joanie will send a ping to folks via the mailing list about the closing of call for papers for CSUN 2012.
  39 14:44:25 <API> clown, although somewhat offtopic
  40 14:44:26 <API> tecla?
  41 14:44:35 <clown> mobile accessibility.
  42 14:44:41 <clown> *looks for a link*
  43 14:45:16 <jhernandez> http://scyp.idrc.ocad.ca/projects/tekla
  44 14:45:25 <jhernandez> maybe this one?
  45 14:45:46 <API> ah, yes, I remember this project
  46 14:45:47 <joanie> I don't see any keys. ;-)
  47 14:45:51 <clown> yup, jhernandez
  48 14:45:57 <jhernandez> :]
  49 14:46:03 <clown> beat me to it.
  50 14:46:06 <API> one of your colleagues asked me some years ago about maemo
  51 14:46:10 <clown> but, thanks.
  52 14:46:17 <API> so it seems that it moved to android
  53 14:46:17 <API> anyway
  54 14:46:20 <API> clown, thanks
  55 14:46:22 <API> lets move
  56 14:46:30 * clown starts dancing.
  57 14:46:39 <API> #info 1.2 FoG Updates
  58 14:46:44 <API> jjmarin, ?
  59 14:46:56 <jjmarin> By now,
  60 14:47:53 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo is waiting for completed info about the "ATK/AT-SPI Scripting and automation tool" goal
  61 14:48:45 <jjmarin> I don't know if it is good idea to ask in the marketing list about FoG planning this year
  62 14:48:59 <joanie> jjmarin: I think it would be worth doing so
  63 14:49:06 <joanie> in a non-a11y focused means
  64 14:49:20 <jjmarin> ok, i'll do
  65 14:49:24 <joanie> because the FoG that was for a11y and then was for sysadmin then just didn't happen
  66 14:49:36 <joanie> in other words, if FoG is a thing of the past, fine
  67 14:49:43 <joanie> but we'd like to know one way or the other
  68 14:50:07 <jjmarin> in the past, there were one campaign at the end of the year and another in the middle. Anyway, I'll ask
  69 14:50:09 <joanie> And we can almost certainly find additional work to propose for FoG funding
  70 14:50:21 <joanie> but to me this is yet another instance of Deadlock:
  71 14:50:40 <joanie> We don't have time to invest writing proposals for an FoG which will never happen
  72 14:50:49 <joanie> if the FoG will never happen unless we write proposals....
  73 14:51:01 <joanie> We *need* to know what is up (or not up) with FoG gnome-wide
  74 14:51:02 <joanie> imho
  75 14:51:23 <joanie> so please, please ask them jjmarin :-)
  76 14:51:34 <joanie> (more nicely than I would) ;-)
  77 14:52:02 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will ask to the marketing team about the plans for FoG campaings
  78 14:52:03 <API> joanie, jjmarin a pretty #info and a pretty #action would be awsome here ;)
  79 14:52:24 <joanie> yessir API
  80 14:52:25 <joanie> ;-)
  81 14:52:53 <joanie> #info Joanie is concerned about the team spending their very finite time and resources writing proposals for an FoG which might never happen.
  82 14:53:26 <joanie> #info Joanie feels, therefore, that it is essential for us to know *in general* what the GNOME community and GNOME Marketing Team plan to do with respect to FoG campaigns.
  83 14:53:27 <jjmarin> joanie: thanks !
  84 14:53:39 <jjmarin> anyone want to add something ?
  85 14:53:50 <jjmarin> about the FoG thing ?
  86 14:53:57 <joanie> #info If GNOME has indeed not given up on FoG campaigns in general, the Accessibility Team will prioritize providing additional proposals.
  87 14:54:06 <joanie> API how's that?
  88 14:54:17 <clown> *if* there is a FoG, when will we receive notice that our proposal is funded?
  89 14:54:22 <API> ok, mames sense
  90 14:54:24 <API> makes in fact
  91 14:54:29 <clown> probably a tough question to answer...
  92 14:54:37 <joanie> clown: if they do an FoG for GNOME A11y
  93 14:54:53 <joanie> proposals funded will be based on funds received
  94 14:55:12 <joanie> and come hell or high water we will have cursor and focus tracking in gnome-shell mag
  95 14:55:15 <joanie> ;-)
  96 14:55:27 <joanie> (i.e. if we get money, your proposal is near the top of the to-be-funded list)
  97 14:55:28 <clown> what about hurricanes and tornadoes?
  98 14:55:38 <joanie> blizzards too
  99 14:55:40 <jjmarin> it depends how successfull the campaign will be :-)
 100 14:55:57 <joanie> jjmarin: right. And if we don't have all projects covered, we need to decide
 101 14:56:09 <joanie> cursor and focus tracking in the magnifier is a must-have
 102 14:56:15 * clown nods
 103 14:56:28 <joanie> anyhoo, next item?
 104 14:56:30 <joanie> ;-)
 105 14:56:46 <API> #info 1.3 Plans regarding social networking tools, etc.
 106 14:56:57 <API> joanie, I guess that you added this point
 107 14:57:07 <joanie> I added it but it's more for jjmarin
 108 14:57:23 <jjmarin> About this one, we have a twitter account and I added a identi.ca account
 109 14:57:25 <jjmarin> but
 110 14:57:40 <jjmarin> there was a a11y planet in the past
 111 14:58:10 <API> jjmarin, afair, it was started
 112 14:58:20 <API> but Bryen planned a revamp because that planet was
 113 14:58:25 <API> not accessible
 114 14:58:36 <API> anyway,
 115 14:58:38 <API> fwiw
 116 14:58:41 <joanie> and then the planet vanished, never to be seen nor heard from again. ;-)
 117 14:58:48 <API> current a11y members are not really verbose
 118 14:58:52 <API> in relation with posts
 119 14:59:01 <API> and not sure
 120 14:59:04 <joanie> API true, but should we be? (maybe not)
 121 14:59:11 <API> if a exclusive planet a11y worths
 122 14:59:13 <API> I mean
 123 14:59:24 <jjmarin> exactly
 124 14:59:26 <API> why we need a planet-a11y to aggregate a11y posts?
 125 14:59:35 <joanie> we could tweet posts I suppose
 126 14:59:37 <API> why not just post, and being agregated on planet.gnome.org
 127 14:59:39 <API> ?
 128 14:59:48 <API> my post
 129 14:59:51 <jhernandez> API: +1
 130 14:59:56 <API> and my a11y post, already appear there
 131 15:00:08 <jjmarin> +1
 132 15:01:01 <jjmarin> So we need more a11y aggregated in planet gnome and more verbosed, right ?
 133 15:01:24 <API> well, "more verbosed"
 134 15:01:30 <API> if we have something to say
 135 15:01:32 <API> say that
 136 15:01:38 <API> not just being verbose
 137 15:01:46 <API> but it is true that we could made some post
 138 15:01:52 <API> ie: in my case, post about guadec
 139 15:01:54 <API> for example
 140 15:02:09 * joanie thinks of "Psycho Killer"
 141 15:02:22 <jjmarin> yes, we need more awareness in the gnome community and in general
 142 15:02:23 <joanie> (When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed.)
 143 15:03:13 <jjmarin> Maybe more informative posts about what going on and thinks like that
 144 15:03:17 <joanie> so conclusions?
 145 15:03:20 <jjmarin> things
 146 15:03:33 <joanie> no planet? tweet posts that are a11y specific?
 147 15:03:46 <API> joanie, a mon please, before conclusions
 148 15:03:55 <API> jjmarin, who controls the a11y twitter account?
 149 15:03:58 <API> I mean,
 150 15:04:02 <jjmarin> I do
 151 15:04:07 <API> so if someone wants to tweet something
 152 15:04:08 <joanie> :-)
 153 15:04:15 <API> he needs to ask you to tweet
 154 15:04:16 <API> ?
 155 15:04:43 <joanie> Personally I think that if we want to tweet something we tweet it (i.e. @joanmarie, @gnome_orca)
 156 15:05:02 <joanie> and that the @gnome_a11y account should follow those and blog posts etc.
 157 15:05:16 <joanie> rather than multiple team members having access
 158 15:05:40 <API> joanie, sorry, Im a noob-tweeter
 159 15:05:42 <API> doing that
 160 15:05:57 <API> if someone follows gnome-a11y will be
 161 15:05:57 <joanie> did you start tweeting?
 162 15:06:00 <API> notified for the others?
 163 15:06:03 <API> joanie, no
 164 15:06:08 <joanie> ;-)
 165 15:06:18 <joanie> and no, following gnome-a11y would not result in following the others
 166 15:06:20 <joanie> my point is this
 167 15:06:29 <joanie> a skilled marketer knows what to pass along
 168 15:06:39 <joanie> not everything is worth passing along
 169 15:07:17 <joanie> so I think we could probably ask jjmarin to stay on top of things which might be pass-along-worthy
 170 15:07:28 <joanie> and count on him to pass them along as appropriate
 171 15:07:38 <joanie> jjmarin: thoughts?
 172 15:08:13 <jjmarin> Though I'm not a pro, I think it's right
 173 15:08:20 <joanie> :-)
 174 15:08:29 <jjmarin> and the more post you made, the better
 175 15:08:48 <joanie> we all do need to start blogging more
 176 15:08:54 <joanie> (or in my case, resume blogging)
 177 15:08:56 <jjmarin> because only tweet releases in sort of boring
 178 15:09:05 <joanie> agreed
 179 15:09:25 <API> ok, so now I think that we can go to the summary
 180 15:09:33 <API> jjmarin, some pretty #info summarizing this please?
 181 15:09:47 <jjmarin> ok
 182 15:10:53 <jjmarin> #Info Juanjo will manage the social account and the a11y team will provide him cool stuff from time to time
 183 15:11:03 <jjmarin> :-)
 184 15:11:18 * clown loves the "cool" qualifier.
 185 15:11:21 <joanie> and jjmarin will be on the lookout for that cool stuff
 186 15:11:24 <joanie> right?
 187 15:11:31 <joanie> so that we are not having to feed him
 188 15:11:42 <clown> so we tweet at jjmarin?
 189 15:11:53 <API> #info for the moment a11y team will not create a specific a11y planet
 190 15:11:55 <joanie> clown: the opposite imho
 191 15:12:07 <clown> jjmarin "polls" our tweets?
 192 15:12:16 <API> #info for the moment being more post-verbose and being included on p.g.o should be enough
 193 15:12:25 <joanie> clown: and other stuff (blog entries, stuff from the mailing list).
 194 15:12:29 <API> #info still, some people think that a planet a11y could be interesting
 195 15:12:32 <joanie> whatever is worth sharing
 196 15:12:40 <clown> joanie:  got it.
 197 15:12:52 <API> so, moving?
 198 15:13:06 <jjmarin> +1
 199 15:13:11 <joanie> clown: the nice thing about having a proper marketing guy is that marketing us is something we don't have to focus on on top of development
 200 15:13:14 <joanie> yes moving
 201 15:13:20 * clown feels a tweet coming on...
 202 15:13:25 <joanie> ;-)
 203 15:13:25 <clown> +1 to moving
 204 15:13:31 <API> #topic GNOME 3.4 planning
 205 15:13:45 <API> #info Accerciser's plans regarding iPython 0.11/0.12
 206 15:13:49 <clown> +1 to jjmarin doiing the work ;-)
 207 15:13:57 <joanie> ;-)
 208 15:14:11 <jhernandez> well
 209 15:14:44 <jjmarin> clown: only if you keep doing cool stuff
 210 15:14:49 <jhernandez> I've been looking at this issue
 211 15:15:01 * clown right, "cool" stuff.
 212 15:15:04 <jhernandez> and, ipython has changed its API a lot
 213 15:15:34 <jhernandez> so, I'll need to rewrite some code
 214 15:15:38 <jhernandez> :S
 215 15:15:59 <joanie> jhernandez: are you planning on a version which is compatible with both?
 216 15:16:11 <joanie> as right now, if you fix it for Fedora, you'll break it for Ubuntu
 217 15:16:29 <jhernandez> of course, but, I need to start working on for to see if it's possible
 218 15:16:38 * joanie nods
 219 15:17:00 <joanie> or alternatively, a branch for now and a release later
 220 15:17:01 <API> jhernandez, and the benefits for the move?
 221 15:17:06 <jhernandez> ipython's API has changed and they removed some classes
 222 15:17:12 <API> I mean, does this effort really worth?
 223 15:17:17 <jhernandez> some of them, used by accerciser
 224 15:17:55 <jhernandez> API: IMHO, yes
 225 15:18:01 <API> jhernandez, so whats the current state then?
 226 15:18:15 <API> accerciser can't use ipython because the current in use
 227 15:18:19 <API> is not api compatible?
 228 15:18:25 <jhernandez> API: yes
 229 15:18:31 <API> jhernandez, ok
 230 15:18:38 <jhernandez> from 0.12
 231 15:19:02 <jhernandez> they removed the iplib and Shell modules, both of them, used by accercerciser
 232 15:19:16 * joanie misses the ipython console :-(
 233 15:19:25 <API> ok, anything else? could you format this with #info?
 234 15:19:34 <jhernandez> API: sure
 235 15:20:17 <jhernandez> #info Accerciser is affected by the upcoming ipython 0.12, because is not API compatible
 236 15:20:56 <jhernandez> #info jhernandez is planning on to port the ipython plugin for to use the new ipython API
 237 15:21:37 <API> ok, jhernandez anything else?
 238 15:21:41 <joanie> #info Some of the changes which break Accerciser's ipython console appear in ipython version 0.11.
 239 15:21:58 <joanie> #info As a result, Accerciser's ipython console will not function beginning with Fedora 16.
 240 15:22:10 <joanie> (sorry, I'm not jhernandez)
 241 15:22:16 <API> ;)
 242 15:22:17 <jhernandez> joanie: thanks!
 243 15:22:19 <jhernandez> :]
 244 15:22:19 <API> ok, lets move
 245 15:22:26 <API> #info 2.2 New (non-a11y) "testing distro" status
 246 15:22:28 <joanie> jhernandez: Thank *you*
 247 15:22:34 <API> jhernandez, I guess that this is also your poing
 248 15:22:36 <API> point
 249 15:22:43 * jhernandez nods
 250 15:22:45 <jhernandez> ok
 251 15:23:07 <jhernandez> I've been working with fcrozat in this wide-gnome testing distro
 252 15:24:03 <jhernandez> at this moment, we have a 3.1.91 one, and we're still working on a 3.1.92 one
 253 15:24:21 <bnitz> jhernandez I should soon have a basic tinderbox tester based on your original a11y testing distro.
 254 15:24:41 <jhernandez> but, the problem is that the OBS has a bug and it's impossible to build these images :(
 255 15:24:52 <API> these images?
 256 15:25:00 <API> it is a new bug?
 257 15:25:01 <jhernandez> API: live images
 258 15:25:07 <bnitz> jhernandez uh oh, I was going to try to build an image later today.
 259 15:25:13 <API> I mean that gnome 3.0 were created with obs
 260 15:25:14 <API> afaik
 261 15:25:26 <jhernandez> yes, it's a recent OBS problem
 262 15:26:10 <jhernandez> people involved with opensuse-builder knows about it, and I'm supposing that they're working on this
 263 15:26:15 <bnitz> jhernandez this isn't the problem where SuSE grub's aren't portable?
 264 15:26:43 <bnitz> because they use the UUID of the disk instead of /dev/hdax /dev/sday?
 265 15:26:49 <jhernandez> so, hopefully we'll get this fixed soon, but, for now, we're going to upload to some place
 266 15:27:27 <jhernandez> bnitz: dunno
 267 15:27:27 <clown> "some place"?
 268 15:27:44 <jhernandez> clown: yes, for to downlo9ad
 269 15:27:47 <jhernandez> *download
 270 15:27:52 <API> jhernandez, ah, so do you still can create the live image?
 271 15:28:07 <jhernandez> API: yes, locally
 272 15:28:14 <jhernandez> the problem is not kiwi, is the OBS
 273 15:29:02 <bnitz> jhernandez  we can chat later if you like.  I have a SuSE grub fixer script as part of my tinderbox.
 274 15:29:02 <API> jhernandez, ok
 275 15:29:02 <API> and although somewhat offtopic
 276 15:29:02 <jhernandez> bnitz: the same kiwi file builds locally, so, the problem is in the OBS for sure
 277 15:29:02 <jhernandez> :(
 278 15:29:02 <API> bnitz, tinderbox tester?
 279 15:29:42 <bnitz> API : it integrates a jhbuild tinderbox with really basic accessiblity tests (some based around accerciser's validation plug-in)
 280 15:30:10 <API> and taking into account that jhbuild is already integrated with buildbot
 281 15:30:17 <API> why tinderbox?
 282 15:30:30 <bnitz> API sorry I'm using tinderbox as a generic term.
 283 15:30:36 <bnitz> for a build engine.
 284 15:30:58 <API> bnitz, so you are using jhbuild and buildbot?
 285 15:31:21 <API> or just jhbuild?
 286 15:31:21 <bnitz> just jhbuild
 287 15:31:21 <API> ok
 288 15:31:22 <API> over meeting time
 289 15:31:27 <API> sorry guys, we need to move
 290 15:31:32 <API> jhernandez, anything else?
 291 15:31:39 <jhernandez> not from my side
 292 15:31:54 <API> #info 2.3 Getting more modules included
 293 15:31:55 <jhernandez> I'll share the live images ASAP
 294 15:32:11 * joanie is experiencing a crazy lag btw 6.49 :-/
 295 15:32:13 <API> joanie, I think that you added this point
 296 15:32:25 <joanie> Should we roll this item over to the next meeting?
 297 15:32:30 <API> joanie, ok
 298 15:32:39 <API> as a general 3.4 planning
 299 15:32:49 <API> adding also "feature"
 300 15:33:00 <API> as now gnome release and proposal are featured-oriented
 301 15:33:09 <API> (so modules are things required to implement features)
 302 15:33:16 <API> so
 303 15:33:28 <API> as I have the meeting
 304 15:33:31 <joanie> but basically I was thinking we should get Dasher back as a module
 305 15:33:34 <API> scepter and Im benevolent
 306 15:33:38 <joanie> and propose DOTS
 307 15:33:45 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 308 15:33:58 <API> #info for next meeting we will retake 3.4 planning
 309 15:34:23 <API> #info joanie as a preview of that meeting, would like to talk about adding Dasher and DOTS
 310 15:34:35 <API> joanie, ok, now start to think about which features provides those modules
 311 15:34:43 <API> as a way to sell them
 312 15:34:55 * joanie nods
 313 15:35:01 <API> people, we are on misc time, so if anyone wants to add something not included on agenda
 314 15:35:03 <API> be quick!
 315 15:35:09 * API or be dead
 316 15:35:14 <joanie> lol
 317 15:35:29 <joanie> says the guy who just claimed to be "benevolent"
 318 15:35:51 <jjmarin> wild west ending ! :-)
 319 15:36:02 <clown> benevolent fearless leader.
 320 15:36:09 <API> hard to not finishing the title of a song if you started it :P
 321 15:36:47 * jhernandez is receiveing a training course about write expression, and the teacher is looking a lot to me :S
 322 15:36:51 <jhernandez> xDD
 323 15:37:09 <joanie> huh?
 324 15:37:17 <clown> "write expression"?
 325 15:37:30 <jhernandez> really don't know how to translate ...
 326 15:37:41 <jhernandez> let me see
 327 15:37:41 <aleiva> clown: how to write
 328 15:37:41 <jjmarin> writing
 329 15:37:41 <aleiva> documents
 330 15:37:44 <joanie> miscellaneous time is miscellaneous
 331 15:37:48 <clown> technical documents?
 332 15:37:50 <jhernandez> yes
 333 15:37:50 <jhernandez> writing
 334 15:37:51 <aleiva> clown: any
 335 15:37:59 <clown> miscellaneous technical documents?
 336 15:38:03 <jhernandez> writing patterns ..
 337 15:38:09 <jhernandez> good maners
 338 15:38:21 <jhernandez> :S
 339 15:38:22 <aleiva> well, catch you later guys
 340 15:38:32 <API> meeting over!
 341 15:38:36 <API> #endmeeting