1 14:36:09 <API> #startmeeting
   2 14:36:09 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Sep 15 14:36:09 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 14:36:09 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 14:36:34 <API> #topic Accessibility Team Events
   5 14:36:46 <API> hmm, well, there are no subtopics but
   6 14:36:55 <API> #info There are some events to talks about
   7 14:37:08 <API> #info First one: Montreal, yes or no
   8 14:37:34 <API> #info last week the conclusion was that we needed to talk with other teams to check how many will be there
   9 14:37:44 <API> #info release-team meeting is today,
  10 14:37:52 <API> #info likely we will talk about that
  11 14:38:04 <API> I didn't have too much time to talk about that
  12 14:38:10 <API> but afaik, at this moment
  13 14:38:23 <API> people that have confirmed
  14 14:38:33 <API> their presence are mostly boston people
  15 14:38:38 <API> that will drive there
  16 14:38:45 <API> joanie, ? anything to add?
  17 14:38:55 <joanie> API yeah
  18 14:39:00 <joanie> No one has confirmed
  19 14:39:06 <joanie> https://live.gnome.org/Montreal2011/Participants
  20 14:39:21 <joanie> There are 13 "tentatives" and, yes, most of those are drivers
  21 14:39:35 <joanie> jjmarin: marketing team decision re montreal?
  22 14:39:58 <jjmarin> they don't have any plan for Montreal
  23 14:40:29 <joanie> jjmarin: so are you a "tentative" (you are still on the list) or a "not going"?
  24 14:40:30 <API> jjmarin, so they plan to not do anything or just no plan at all?
  25 14:40:44 <jjmarin> at this state, not going
  26 14:40:54 <jjmarin> no plan
  27 14:41:08 <jjmarin> We even don't know who will be there
  28 14:41:14 <API> #info jjmarin says that marketing people are not going to organize anything on Montreal
  29 14:41:22 <joanie> so what I'm thinking is that they might consider canceling the summit
  30 14:41:38 <API> they==?
  31 14:41:39 <jjmarin> I think so too
  32 14:41:58 <joanie> #info If it turns out a bunch of people decide to go and we need representation, Joanie will still drive up.
  33 14:42:10 <joanie> API == the powers that be
  34 14:42:49 <API> hmm, odd
  35 14:43:00 <joanie> odd?
  36 14:43:10 <API> I hope that no european has bought their flight ticket
  37 14:43:20 <API> odd because as it was announced
  38 14:43:37 <API> some people could already bought the flight tickets
  39 14:43:48 <joanie> then they should be on the "confirmed" list
  40 14:43:49 <API> but I guess that a summit without people is useless
  41 14:43:55 <API> joanie, good point
  42 14:44:02 <joanie> but, your point is also good
  43 14:44:13 <joanie> in other words, if someone DID buy a plane ticket
  44 14:44:22 <joanie> out of pocket or via their company
  45 14:44:29 <joanie> it's gonna suck
  46 14:44:54 <API> well, summarizing, we are more or lest in the status of last week
  47 14:45:03 <joanie> I don't think so
  48 14:45:08 <API> but with an additional "some people thinks that the summit will be cancelled"
  49 14:45:16 <API> joanie, see my "more or less" :P
  50 14:45:24 <joanie> heh
  51 14:45:29 <joanie> What I mean is this:
  52 14:45:44 <joanie> #info Joanie proposes that we (the team) forget about Montreal.
  53 14:46:14 <joanie> #info But if we need representation last minute, Joanie will drive to Montreal.
  54 14:46:15 <aleiva> plus 1
  55 14:46:19 <clown> +1
  56 14:46:29 <jjmarin> +1
  57 14:47:01 <joanie> #info Joanie further proposes that if we all agree, we announce this to the Board and/or Foundation List
  58 14:47:01 <mgorse> makes sense to me
  59 14:47:11 <joanie> because I am concerned about what API mentioned
  60 14:47:23 <API> I said a lot of things,
  61 14:47:27 <API> specifically
  62 14:47:27 <joanie> namely someone buying a really expensive ticket only to later find out the Board changed their minds
  63 14:47:28 <API> ?
  64 14:47:30 <joanie> and cancelled
  65 14:47:34 <API> ok
  66 14:48:03 <joanie> so moving on?
  67 14:48:10 <joanie> discussion?
  68 14:48:34 <aleiva> are we going to announce that we are not going to attend
  69 14:48:44 <aleiva> or only joanie as fallback?
  70 14:48:45 <joanie> my vote is yes
  71 14:48:51 <joanie> well, both
  72 14:48:56 <aleiva> that is my vote too
  73 14:49:01 <joanie> i.e. the team (mostly in Europe) ain't coming
  74 14:49:14 <joanie> if we are needed, the team will shove joanie in her car and say "drive!"
  75 14:49:23 <aleiva> :)
  76 14:49:50 <aleiva> ok so maybe that is an action
  77 14:49:52 <joanie> #action Joanie will announce the team decision to not attend Montreal to the Board and Foundation List.
  78 14:49:59 <aleiva> yeah
  79 14:50:03 <joanie> :-)
  80 14:50:07 <jjmarin> a11y team has an official driver ;-)
  81 14:50:09 <joanie> aleiva: impatient
  82 14:50:29 <joanie> jjmarin: with a very nice car. I'll miss that car.
  83 14:50:33 <joanie> anyway, moving on?
  84 14:50:36 <API> ok, anything else?
  85 14:50:49 <aleiva> nop
  86 14:50:58 <API> ok, lets move to next subtopic
  87 14:51:03 <joanie> (yay!) :-)
  88 14:51:12 <clown> let's all hop on joanie's bus...
  89 14:51:18 <API> #info 1.2 Hackfest before/after GUADEC in A Coruña?
  90 14:51:33 <API> well, just when Coruña GUADEC was announced
  91 14:51:50 <API> some people at Igalia said that probably it would be a good idea
  92 14:52:02 <API> to organize again a accessibility hackfest at Coruña
  93 14:52:09 <API> just before after guadec
  94 14:52:19 <joanie> +1
  95 14:52:25 <API> similar to what happened this year with object-introspection hackfest
  96 14:52:27 <aleiva> and guadec es?
  97 14:52:40 <API> aleiva, no idea if there is any kind of guadec es planned
  98 14:52:46 <joanie> oh good point though
  99 14:52:48 <API> when it was at Canarias
 100 14:52:58 <API> it was mostly some events at spanish
 101 14:53:05 <joanie> API can we have it after GUADEC then just in case?
 102 14:53:06 <aleiva> aha ok
 103 14:53:09 <API> I meant that guadec and guadec-es were overlapped
 104 14:53:20 <jjmarin> possibly guadec-es be organized as a Spanish track of GUADEC
 105 14:53:23 <API> just in case?
 106 14:53:25 <joanie> because the bulk of the a11y team is spanish
 107 14:53:30 <aleiva> being the main guadec at spain make it is a waste of time
 108 14:53:34 <API> jjmarin, yes exactly, that what I meant
 109 14:53:40 <aleiva> ok
 110 14:53:43 <aleiva> make sense
 111 14:53:58 <joanie> I just don't want people to have to choose between guadec-es and our hackfest API
 112 14:54:25 <joanie> and isn't guadec-es traditionally before guadec (or are we sure it's going to just be a "track" next year)?
 113 14:54:28 <API> joanie, well, as we don't have dates for guadec or guadec-es
 114 14:54:39 <API> we can just generalize and say
 115 14:54:54 <API> a11y hackfest just after/before any guadec event
 116 14:55:00 <joanie> :-)
 117 14:55:06 <joanie> I'm good with that
 118 14:55:06 <API> although usually guadec-es is before guadec
 119 14:55:08 <API> AFAIR
 120 14:55:16 <API> on Canarias those tracks in spanish
 121 14:55:23 <API> were organized at the end of that GUADEC
 122 14:55:29 * API in fact desktop summit
 123 14:55:54 <API> well, what do the rest think about it?
 124 14:56:05 <API> the advantage is that some people planning to go to the guadec
 125 14:56:11 <API> will make the most of the travel
 126 14:56:16 <API> but it is also true
 127 14:56:35 <API> that for some people will hard to allocate 1 week for the guadec + XX time for the hackfest
 128 14:56:38 <clown> the time frame we are talking about is next summer (2012)?
 129 14:56:44 <API> clown, yes
 130 14:56:49 <API> likely july
 131 14:57:04 <API> as in August, by default, the faculty close at the afternoon
 132 14:57:04 <clown> okay, then your general statement seems fair to me, API.
 133 14:57:26 <API> clown, which one? I said two ;)
 134 14:57:29 <API> a pro and a con
 135 14:57:46 * clown looks back...
 136 14:58:06 <API> pro:
 137 14:58:10 <API> <API> the advantage is that some people planning to go to the guadec
 138 14:58:10 <API> <API> will make the most of the travel
 139 14:58:11 <API> con
 140 14:58:15 <API> <API> but it is also true
 141 14:58:15 <API> <API> that for some people will hard to allocate 1 week for the guadec + XX time for the hackfest
 142 14:58:43 <clown> I meant:
 143 14:58:43 <clown> > joanie, well, as we don't have dates for guadec or guadec-es
 144 14:58:43 <clown> > we can just generalize and say
 145 14:58:43 <clown> > a11y hackfest just after/before any guadec event
 146 14:58:47 <bnitz> #info proposed dates (from bid) were Monday 16th July to Sunday 22nd July.
 147 14:59:07 <bnitz> #info guadec 2012 dates (not yet set in stone AFAIK)
 148 14:59:43 <API> bnitz, yeah, those were the one proposed, but some people mentioned that OSCON
 149 14:59:50 <API> will be more or less on those dates
 150 15:00:09 <API> anyway trying to summarize
 151 15:00:18 <API> what do the other people think?
 152 15:00:53 <aleiva> for me is ok
 153 15:01:22 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks we should plan on an A Coruña accessibility team hackfest around the time of GUADEC, with exact dates and topic to be decided later in the year.
 154 15:02:33 <API> ok, lets say that for the moment we plan to do that
 155 15:02:35 <bnitz> #agree Brian agrees.  Wonders whether overlap at tail or front of GUADEC would be a good compromise.
 156 15:02:44 <API> there are plenty of time (about one year)
 157 15:02:58 <API> so at first lets start the snowball
 158 15:03:38 <API> #info tentatively a11y team will organize an accessibility hackfest at the time of GUADEC
 159 15:03:42 <API> anything else here?
 160 15:04:59 <jjmarin> nop
 161 15:05:54 <API> well, lets move then
 162 15:05:59 <API> to next subtopic
 163 15:06:21 <API> #info 1.3 Do we want something else between now and then?
 164 15:06:26 <API> this is related to previous one
 165 15:06:49 <API> #info our plan is use the summit as a kind of "see the news"
 166 15:06:55 <API> #info after our atk hackfest
 167 15:07:15 <API> #info as this is really unlikely we will met again face-to-face more than a year after this hackfest
 168 15:07:25 <clown> API, which summit is "the summit"?
 169 15:07:28 <API> #info sooo ... do we want to o
 170 15:07:35 <API> clown, sorry, Boston summit
 171 15:07:41 <clown> okay.
 172 15:07:46 <API> #info so, do we want something between?
 173 15:07:53 <joanie> ahem, the summit formerly known as Boston
 174 15:08:14 <clown> the Montreal-will-fill-in-as-Boston summit.
 175 15:08:24 <joanie> If we do want something in between, I think it should be something with very concrete goals
 176 15:08:45 <joanie> in times past we had these vaguely-defined hackfests and accomplished very little
 177 15:09:26 <API> joanie, for examplle?
 178 15:09:27 <joanie> so I think the real question is "Do we NEED something between? And if so, what specifically is that thing?"
 179 15:09:28 <mgorse> agreed; depends what we need to get done / how much we need ot discuss / when
 180 15:09:55 <joanie> API for example previous hackfest failures or suggested topics?
 181 15:11:00 <bnitz> joanie:Do you have an example of a hackfest which went well.  We could use that as a guide.
 182 15:11:16 <joanie> If I do say so myself, the ATK hackfest went well
 183 15:11:25 <joanie> because we had very, very specific tasks
 184 15:11:32 <API> well, I liked CSUN 2010 hackfest,
 185 15:11:45 <API> although it has also specific tasks: coordinate gnome 3
 186 15:12:32 <API> well, and in fact, we still need to hink
 187 15:12:33 <API> think
 188 15:12:47 <API> on the specific tasks for accessibility hackfest at GUADEC
 189 15:12:57 <API> ok, it seems that right now noboby is saying
 190 15:13:03 <API> "yes, we need one for XXX"
 191 15:13:10 <joanie> I'll provide them
 192 15:13:22 <API> so as no one is heavily pushing
 193 15:13:31 <joanie> We need a follow-up ATK/AT-SPI2 hackfest -- one that includes Benjamin amongst others
 194 15:13:34 <API> for a hackfest between now and GUADEC
 195 15:13:46 <joanie> We need a get more ATs in GNOME hackfest
 196 15:13:51 <API> joanie, ok, so  next question is
 197 15:14:07 <API> do we need that follow-up before GUADEC, or at GUADEC will be fine?
 198 15:14:15 <joanie> We need a cross-desktop accessibility hackfest
 199 15:14:20 <joanie> those are my top 3
 200 15:14:38 <API> well, that accessibility hackfest just before/after
 201 15:14:41 <joanie> I'm thinking before GUADEC
 202 15:14:42 <API> can be cross-desktop
 203 15:14:57 <API> I think that fregl will not opposite to come again to Coruña ;)
 204 15:14:57 <joanie> okay
 205 15:15:01 <aleiva> I think before is better
 206 15:15:09 <joanie> I'm sure he will not ;-)
 207 15:15:28 <joanie> So then before GUADEC I think we need the ATK-follow-up hackfest
 208 15:15:45 <jjmarin> So the ideas are a) follow-up ATK/AT-SPI2 hackfest and b) cross-desktop accessibility hackfest hackfests
 209 15:15:49 <joanie> and I think we could add the get-more-at's topic at GUADEC
 210 15:16:11 <API> well jjmarin , a) can be cross-desktop
 211 15:16:19 <jjmarin> ok
 212 15:16:39 <jjmarin> joanie: do you mean an AT track in GUADEC ?
 213 15:16:48 <joanie> not necessarily a track
 214 15:17:18 <jjmarin> being active and visible in GUADEC
 215 15:17:32 <joanie> but that is an implementation detail ;-)
 216 15:17:53 <API> well, guys sorry, this is somewhat disperse, and we need to talk about other topics
 217 15:17:54 <jjmarin> :)
 218 15:17:59 <joanie> We have two hackfests proposed. One for sooner-than-guadec; one for just-before-or-after guadec
 219 15:18:10 * joanie thought it was pretty specific
 220 15:18:10 <API> and I feel that all we are talking is somewhat diffuse
 221 15:18:18 * joanie shrugs
 222 15:18:21 <API> so, lets try to summarize, and continue the debate on the ml
 223 15:19:00 <API> #info people think that it would be good to have a ATK/AT-SPI2 followup before GUADEC
 224 15:19:11 <API> #info no plan yet, the debate will continue on the ml
 225 15:20:18 <API> ok?, anything else?
 226 15:21:00 <API> well, lets move
 227 15:21:11 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
 228 15:21:16 <API> or an alternative title
 229 15:21:18 <API> release notes
 230 15:21:20 <API> jjmarin, ?
 231 15:21:47 <jjmarin> # We have some lines in GNOME 3.2 Release notes
 232 15:21:56 <jjmarin> #info We have some lines in GNOME 3.2 Release notes
 233 15:22:27 <jjmarin> I mainly do this with the great help of joanie
 234 15:22:39 <joanie> heh
 235 15:23:05 <API> jjmarin, andre_ is the one at charge of the release notes
 236 15:23:17 <API> is he aware of your a11y specific release notes?
 237 15:23:19 <jjmarin> and bkor
 238 15:23:25 <jjmarin> yes
 239 15:23:29 <API> AFAIK, you wrote them on the a11y wiki
 240 15:23:29 <API> ok
 241 15:24:24 <jjmarin> it only left some details
 242 15:24:37 <API> jjmarin, what do you mean?
 243 15:24:44 <jjmarin> about the isEnable feature that mgorse did
 244 15:24:53 <API> he heaviliy summarized your notes?
 245 15:25:05 <jjmarin> bkor didn't understand the feature
 246 15:25:17 <jjmarin> and ask me for more info. I replied it
 247 15:26:16 <jjmarin> current status is http://git.gnome.org/browse/release-notes/tree/help/C/rna11y.xml?h=gnome-3-2
 248 15:26:43 <jjmarin> I hope to close this this afternoon
 249 15:27:19 <jjmarin> the item that he requested more info is "Until GNOME &gnomeversion;, assistive technology users have faced an  unfortunate dilemma:"
 250 15:27:28 <API> jjmarin, so going back to my question
 251 15:27:41 <API> did they use all your notes, or heavily summarized it?
 252 15:28:03 <jjmarin> they keep it more than less, only changes some words
 253 15:28:25 <API> jjmarin, ok, good
 254 15:28:33 <API> anything else?
 255 15:29:36 <jjmarin> no
 256 15:30:05 <API> ok, thanks
 257 15:30:10 <jjmarin> I must finish my action to finnish the FoG goals :-)
 258 15:30:11 <API> well, we don't have too much time
 259 15:30:27 <API> jjmarin, ;)
 260 15:30:28 <API> so
 261 15:30:32 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 262 15:30:38 <clown> if this is still marketing and funding...
 263 15:30:48 <API> does somebody wants to question, add something quick?
 264 15:30:48 <clown> oh, well, anyhow...
 265 15:30:55 <API> clown, go ahead, you know
 266 15:30:58 <API> miscellaneous
 267 15:31:02 <clown> #info Joseph finished his proposal for a FoG grant:
 268 15:31:02 <clown> #info https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/FoG#GNOME_Shell_Magnifier_track_focus_and_caret
 269 15:31:05 <clown> done.
 270 15:31:11 <joanie> yay!
 271 15:31:30 <clown> jjmarin:  take note ^
 272 15:31:49 <jjmarin> yes, I noticed. I should have mentioned :-)
 273 15:31:55 <clown> no problem.
 274 15:32:05 <clown> also, in terms of misc time.
 275 15:32:13 <clown> #info bug 656156 (Add lighness, brightness, and contrast effects to clutter)
 276 15:32:13 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656156 normal, Normal, ---, clutter-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Add lightness, brightness, and contrast effects
 277 15:32:21 <clown> #info E. Bassi reviewed Joseph's patch.
 278 15:32:30 <clown> #info Joseph incorporated his suggestions, and submitted a new patch
 279 15:32:37 <clown> #info new patch is here:
 280 15:32:46 <clown> #info https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656156#c8
 281 15:32:46 <tota11y> 04Bug 656156: normal, Normal, ---, clutter-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Add lightness, brightness, and contrast effects
 282 15:32:55 <clown> and, I'm waiting for a further review.
 283 15:32:57 <clown> done.
 284 15:33:31 <jjmarin> clown: sounds good !!!
 285 15:33:53 <clown> thanks.
 286 15:34:57 <API> well, and just 5 minutes over time
 287 15:35:00 <API> anything else?
 288 15:35:02 <API> poelple?
 289 15:35:03 <API> argh
 290 15:35:06 <API> people?
 291 15:35:17 <jhernandez> no
 292 15:35:28 <clown> not from me.
 293 15:35:45 <jjmarin> me neither, I need a nap :-)
 294 15:36:04 <joanie> heh
 295 15:36:07 * clown throws jjmarin a pillow
 296 15:36:36 <API> #endmeeting