14:36:09 <API> #startmeeting
14:36:09 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Sep 15 14:36:09 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:36:09 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:36:34 <API> #topic Accessibility Team Events
14:36:46 <API> hmm, well, there are no subtopics but
14:36:55 <API> #info There are some events to talks about
14:37:08 <API> #info First one: Montreal, yes or no
14:37:34 <API> #info last week the conclusion was that we needed to talk with other teams to check how many will be there
14:37:44 <API> #info release-team meeting is today,
14:37:52 <API> #info likely we will talk about that
14:38:04 <API> I didn't have too much time to talk about that
14:38:10 <API> but afaik, at this moment
14:38:23 <API> people that have confirmed
14:38:33 <API> their presence are mostly boston people
14:38:38 <API> that will drive there
14:38:45 <API> joanie, ? anything to add?
14:38:55 <joanie> API yeah
14:39:00 <joanie> No one has confirmed
14:39:06 <joanie> https://live.gnome.org/Montreal2011/Participants
14:39:21 <joanie> There are 13 "tentatives" and, yes, most of those are drivers
14:39:35 <joanie> jjmarin: marketing team decision re montreal?
14:39:58 <jjmarin> they don't have any plan for Montreal
14:40:29 <joanie> jjmarin: so are you a "tentative" (you are still on the list) or a "not going"?
14:40:30 <API> jjmarin, so they plan to not do anything or just no plan at all?
14:40:44 <jjmarin> at this state, not going
14:40:54 <jjmarin> no plan
14:41:08 <jjmarin> We even don't know who will be there
14:41:14 <API> #info jjmarin says that marketing people are not going to organize anything on Montreal
14:41:22 <joanie> so what I'm thinking is that they might consider canceling the summit
14:41:38 <API> they==?
14:41:39 <jjmarin> I think so too
14:41:58 <joanie> #info If it turns out a bunch of people decide to go and we need representation, Joanie will still drive up.
14:42:10 <joanie> API == the powers that be
14:42:49 <API> hmm, odd
14:43:00 <joanie> odd?
14:43:10 <API> I hope that no european has bought their flight ticket
14:43:20 <API> odd because as it was announced
14:43:37 <API> some people could already bought the flight tickets
14:43:48 <joanie> then they should be on the "confirmed" list
14:43:49 <API> but I guess that a summit without people is useless
14:43:55 <API> joanie, good point
14:44:02 <joanie> but, your point is also good
14:44:13 <joanie> in other words, if someone DID buy a plane ticket
14:44:22 <joanie> out of pocket or via their company
14:44:29 <joanie> it's gonna suck
14:44:54 <API> well, summarizing, we are more or lest in the status of last week
14:45:03 <joanie> I don't think so
14:45:08 <API> but with an additional "some people thinks that the summit will be cancelled"
14:45:16 <API> joanie, see my "more or less" :P
14:45:24 <joanie> heh
14:45:29 <joanie> What I mean is this:
14:45:44 <joanie> #info Joanie proposes that we (the team) forget about Montreal.
14:46:14 <joanie> #info But if we need representation last minute, Joanie will drive to Montreal.
14:46:15 <aleiva> plus 1
14:46:19 <clown> +1
14:46:29 <jjmarin> +1
14:47:01 <joanie> #info Joanie further proposes that if we all agree, we announce this to the Board and/or Foundation List
14:47:01 <mgorse> makes sense to me
14:47:11 <joanie> because I am concerned about what API mentioned
14:47:23 <API> I said a lot of things,
14:47:27 <API> specifically
14:47:27 <joanie> namely someone buying a really expensive ticket only to later find out the Board changed their minds
14:47:28 <API> ?
14:47:30 <joanie> and cancelled
14:47:34 <API> ok
14:48:03 <joanie> so moving on?
14:48:10 <joanie> discussion?
14:48:34 <aleiva> are we going to announce that we are not going to attend
14:48:44 <aleiva> or only joanie as fallback?
14:48:45 <joanie> my vote is yes
14:48:51 <joanie> well, both
14:48:56 <aleiva> that is my vote too
14:49:01 <joanie> i.e. the team (mostly in Europe) ain't coming
14:49:14 <joanie> if we are needed, the team will shove joanie in her car and say "drive!"
14:49:23 <aleiva> :)
14:49:50 <aleiva> ok so maybe that is an action
14:49:52 <joanie> #action Joanie will announce the team decision to not attend Montreal to the Board and Foundation List.
14:49:59 <aleiva> yeah
14:50:03 <joanie> :-)
14:50:07 <jjmarin> a11y team has an official driver ;-)
14:50:09 <joanie> aleiva: impatient
14:50:29 <joanie> jjmarin: with a very nice car. I'll miss that car.
14:50:33 <joanie> anyway, moving on?
14:50:36 <API> ok, anything else?
14:50:49 <aleiva> nop
14:50:58 <API> ok, lets move to next subtopic
14:51:03 <joanie> (yay!) :-)
14:51:12 <clown> let's all hop on joanie's bus...
14:51:18 <API> #info 1.2 Hackfest before/after GUADEC in A Coruña?
14:51:33 <API> well, just when Coruña GUADEC was announced
14:51:50 <API> some people at Igalia said that probably it would be a good idea
14:52:02 <API> to organize again a accessibility hackfest at Coruña
14:52:09 <API> just before after guadec
14:52:19 <joanie> +1
14:52:25 <API> similar to what happened this year with object-introspection hackfest
14:52:27 <aleiva> and guadec es?
14:52:40 <API> aleiva, no idea if there is any kind of guadec es planned
14:52:46 <joanie> oh good point though
14:52:48 <API> when it was at Canarias
14:52:58 <API> it was mostly some events at spanish
14:53:05 <joanie> API can we have it after GUADEC then just in case?
14:53:06 <aleiva> aha ok
14:53:09 <API> I meant that guadec and guadec-es were overlapped
14:53:20 <jjmarin> possibly guadec-es be organized as a Spanish track of GUADEC
14:53:23 <API> just in case?
14:53:25 <joanie> because the bulk of the a11y team is spanish
14:53:30 <aleiva> being the main guadec at spain make it is a waste of time
14:53:34 <API> jjmarin, yes exactly, that what I meant
14:53:40 <aleiva> ok
14:53:43 <aleiva> make sense
14:53:58 <joanie> I just don't want people to have to choose between guadec-es and our hackfest API
14:54:25 <joanie> and isn't guadec-es traditionally before guadec (or are we sure it's going to just be a "track" next year)?
14:54:28 <API> joanie, well, as we don't have dates for guadec or guadec-es
14:54:39 <API> we can just generalize and say
14:54:54 <API> a11y hackfest just after/before any guadec event
14:55:00 <joanie> :-)
14:55:06 <joanie> I'm good with that
14:55:06 <API> although usually guadec-es is before guadec
14:55:08 <API> AFAIR
14:55:16 <API> on Canarias those tracks in spanish
14:55:23 <API> were organized at the end of that GUADEC
14:55:29 * API in fact desktop summit
14:55:54 <API> well, what do the rest think about it?
14:56:05 <API> the advantage is that some people planning to go to the guadec
14:56:11 <API> will make the most of the travel
14:56:16 <API> but it is also true
14:56:35 <API> that for some people will hard to allocate 1 week for the guadec + XX time for the hackfest
14:56:38 <clown> the time frame we are talking about is next summer (2012)?
14:56:44 <API> clown, yes
14:56:49 <API> likely july
14:57:04 <API> as in August, by default, the faculty close at the afternoon
14:57:04 <clown> okay, then your general statement seems fair to me, API.
14:57:26 <API> clown, which one? I said two ;)
14:57:29 <API> a pro and a con
14:57:46 * clown looks back...
14:58:06 <API> pro:
14:58:10 <API> <API> the advantage is that some people planning to go to the guadec
14:58:10 <API> <API> will make the most of the travel
14:58:11 <API> con
14:58:15 <API> <API> but it is also true
14:58:15 <API> <API> that for some people will hard to allocate 1 week for the guadec + XX time for the hackfest
14:58:43 <clown> I meant:
14:58:43 <clown> > joanie, well, as we don't have dates for guadec or guadec-es
14:58:43 <clown> > we can just generalize and say
14:58:43 <clown> > a11y hackfest just after/before any guadec event
14:58:47 <bnitz> #info proposed dates (from bid) were Monday 16th July to Sunday 22nd July.
14:59:07 <bnitz> #info guadec 2012 dates (not yet set in stone AFAIK)
14:59:43 <API> bnitz, yeah, those were the one proposed, but some people mentioned that OSCON
14:59:50 <API> will be more or less on those dates
15:00:09 <API> anyway trying to summarize
15:00:18 <API> what do the other people think?
15:00:53 <aleiva> for me is ok
15:01:22 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks we should plan on an A Coruña accessibility team hackfest around the time of GUADEC, with exact dates and topic to be decided later in the year.
15:02:33 <API> ok, lets say that for the moment we plan to do that
15:02:35 <bnitz> #agree Brian agrees.  Wonders whether overlap at tail or front of GUADEC would be a good compromise.
15:02:44 <API> there are plenty of time (about one year)
15:02:58 <API> so at first lets start the snowball
15:03:38 <API> #info tentatively a11y team will organize an accessibility hackfest at the time of GUADEC
15:03:42 <API> anything else here?
15:04:59 <jjmarin> nop
15:05:54 <API> well, lets move then
15:05:59 <API> to next subtopic
15:06:21 <API> #info 1.3 Do we want something else between now and then?
15:06:26 <API> this is related to previous one
15:06:49 <API> #info our plan is use the summit as a kind of "see the news"
15:06:55 <API> #info after our atk hackfest
15:07:15 <API> #info as this is really unlikely we will met again face-to-face more than a year after this hackfest
15:07:25 <clown> API, which summit is "the summit"?
15:07:28 <API> #info sooo ... do we want to o
15:07:35 <API> clown, sorry, Boston summit
15:07:41 <clown> okay.
15:07:46 <API> #info so, do we want something between?
15:07:53 <joanie> ahem, the summit formerly known as Boston
15:08:14 <clown> the Montreal-will-fill-in-as-Boston summit.
15:08:24 <joanie> If we do want something in between, I think it should be something with very concrete goals
15:08:45 <joanie> in times past we had these vaguely-defined hackfests and accomplished very little
15:09:26 <API> joanie, for examplle?
15:09:27 <joanie> so I think the real question is "Do we NEED something between? And if so, what specifically is that thing?"
15:09:28 <mgorse> agreed; depends what we need to get done / how much we need ot discuss / when
15:09:55 <joanie> API for example previous hackfest failures or suggested topics?
15:11:00 <bnitz> joanie:Do you have an example of a hackfest which went well.  We could use that as a guide.
15:11:16 <joanie> If I do say so myself, the ATK hackfest went well
15:11:25 <joanie> because we had very, very specific tasks
15:11:32 <API> well, I liked CSUN 2010 hackfest,
15:11:45 <API> although it has also specific tasks: coordinate gnome 3
15:12:32 <API> well, and in fact, we still need to hink
15:12:33 <API> think
15:12:47 <API> on the specific tasks for accessibility hackfest at GUADEC
15:12:57 <API> ok, it seems that right now noboby is saying
15:13:03 <API> "yes, we need one for XXX"
15:13:10 <joanie> I'll provide them
15:13:22 <API> so as no one is heavily pushing
15:13:31 <joanie> We need a follow-up ATK/AT-SPI2 hackfest -- one that includes Benjamin amongst others
15:13:34 <API> for a hackfest between now and GUADEC
15:13:46 <joanie> We need a get more ATs in GNOME hackfest
15:13:51 <API> joanie, ok, so  next question is
15:14:07 <API> do we need that follow-up before GUADEC, or at GUADEC will be fine?
15:14:15 <joanie> We need a cross-desktop accessibility hackfest
15:14:20 <joanie> those are my top 3
15:14:38 <API> well, that accessibility hackfest just before/after
15:14:41 <joanie> I'm thinking before GUADEC
15:14:42 <API> can be cross-desktop
15:14:57 <API> I think that fregl will not opposite to come again to Coruña ;)
15:14:57 <joanie> okay
15:15:01 <aleiva> I think before is better
15:15:09 <joanie> I'm sure he will not ;-)
15:15:28 <joanie> So then before GUADEC I think we need the ATK-follow-up hackfest
15:15:45 <jjmarin> So the ideas are a) follow-up ATK/AT-SPI2 hackfest and b) cross-desktop accessibility hackfest hackfests
15:15:49 <joanie> and I think we could add the get-more-at's topic at GUADEC
15:16:11 <API> well jjmarin , a) can be cross-desktop
15:16:19 <jjmarin> ok
15:16:39 <jjmarin> joanie: do you mean an AT track in GUADEC ?
15:16:48 <joanie> not necessarily a track
15:17:18 <jjmarin> being active and visible in GUADEC
15:17:32 <joanie> but that is an implementation detail ;-)
15:17:53 <API> well, guys sorry, this is somewhat disperse, and we need to talk about other topics
15:17:54 <jjmarin> :)
15:17:59 <joanie> We have two hackfests proposed. One for sooner-than-guadec; one for just-before-or-after guadec
15:18:10 * joanie thought it was pretty specific
15:18:10 <API> and I feel that all we are talking is somewhat diffuse
15:18:18 * joanie shrugs
15:18:21 <API> so, lets try to summarize, and continue the debate on the ml
15:19:00 <API> #info people think that it would be good to have a ATK/AT-SPI2 followup before GUADEC
15:19:11 <API> #info no plan yet, the debate will continue on the ml
15:20:18 <API> ok?, anything else?
15:21:00 <API> well, lets move
15:21:11 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
15:21:16 <API> or an alternative title
15:21:18 <API> release notes
15:21:20 <API> jjmarin, ?
15:21:47 <jjmarin> # We have some lines in GNOME 3.2 Release notes
15:21:56 <jjmarin> #info We have some lines in GNOME 3.2 Release notes
15:22:27 <jjmarin> I mainly do this with the great help of joanie
15:22:39 <joanie> heh
15:23:05 <API> jjmarin, andre_ is the one at charge of the release notes
15:23:17 <API> is he aware of your a11y specific release notes?
15:23:19 <jjmarin> and bkor
15:23:25 <jjmarin> yes
15:23:29 <API> AFAIK, you wrote them on the a11y wiki
15:23:29 <API> ok
15:24:24 <jjmarin> it only left some details
15:24:37 <API> jjmarin, what do you mean?
15:24:44 <jjmarin> about the isEnable feature that mgorse did
15:24:53 <API> he heaviliy summarized your notes?
15:25:05 <jjmarin> bkor didn't understand the feature
15:25:17 <jjmarin> and ask me for more info. I replied it
15:26:16 <jjmarin> current status is http://git.gnome.org/browse/release-notes/tree/help/C/rna11y.xml?h=gnome-3-2
15:26:43 <jjmarin> I hope to close this this afternoon
15:27:19 <jjmarin> the item that he requested more info is "Until GNOME &gnomeversion;, assistive technology users have faced an  unfortunate dilemma:"
15:27:28 <API> jjmarin, so going back to my question
15:27:41 <API> did they use all your notes, or heavily summarized it?
15:28:03 <jjmarin> they keep it more than less, only changes some words
15:28:25 <API> jjmarin, ok, good
15:28:33 <API> anything else?
15:29:36 <jjmarin> no
15:30:05 <API> ok, thanks
15:30:10 <jjmarin> I must finish my action to finnish the FoG goals :-)
15:30:11 <API> well, we don't have too much time
15:30:27 <API> jjmarin, ;)
15:30:28 <API> so
15:30:32 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
15:30:38 <clown> if this is still marketing and funding...
15:30:48 <API> does somebody wants to question, add something quick?
15:30:48 <clown> oh, well, anyhow...
15:30:55 <API> clown, go ahead, you know
15:30:58 <API> miscellaneous
15:31:02 <clown> #info Joseph finished his proposal for a FoG grant:
15:31:02 <clown> #info https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/FoG#GNOME_Shell_Magnifier_track_focus_and_caret
15:31:05 <clown> done.
15:31:11 <joanie> yay!
15:31:30 <clown> jjmarin:  take note ^
15:31:49 <jjmarin> yes, I noticed. I should have mentioned :-)
15:31:55 <clown> no problem.
15:32:05 <clown> also, in terms of misc time.
15:32:13 <clown> #info bug 656156 (Add lighness, brightness, and contrast effects to clutter)
15:32:13 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656156 normal, Normal, ---, clutter-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Add lightness, brightness, and contrast effects
15:32:21 <clown> #info E. Bassi reviewed Joseph's patch.
15:32:30 <clown> #info Joseph incorporated his suggestions, and submitted a new patch
15:32:37 <clown> #info new patch is here:
15:32:46 <clown> #info https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656156#c8
15:32:46 <tota11y> 04Bug 656156: normal, Normal, ---, clutter-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Add lightness, brightness, and contrast effects
15:32:55 <clown> and, I'm waiting for a further review.
15:32:57 <clown> done.
15:33:31 <jjmarin> clown: sounds good !!!
15:33:53 <clown> thanks.
15:34:57 <API> well, and just 5 minutes over time
15:35:00 <API> anything else?
15:35:02 <API> poelple?
15:35:03 <API> argh
15:35:06 <API> people?
15:35:17 <jhernandez> no
15:35:28 <clown> not from me.
15:35:45 <jjmarin> me neither, I need a nap :-)
15:36:04 <joanie> heh
15:36:07 * clown throws jjmarin a pillow
15:36:36 <API> #endmeeting