1 14:35:32 <API> #startmeeting
   2 14:35:32 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jul 14 14:35:32 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 14:35:32 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 14:35:42 * joanie waves to aleiva
   5 14:36:25 <API> #topic Q2 quarterly reports
   6 14:36:50 <API> #info emily chen send a mail asking us to fill the q2 quarterly report
   7 14:37:22 <API> joanie do you have at hand the wiki link
   8 14:37:26 <API> of q2 report?
   9 14:37:31 <joanie> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/QuarterlyReports/2011/Q2
  10 14:37:40 <joanie> it's just a skeleton
  11 14:37:46 <joanie> which needs filling out by the team members
  12 14:37:56 <API> #link https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/QuarterlyReports/2011/Q2
  13 14:38:29 <API> #info right now it is only a skeleton, members needs to filling out it
  14 14:38:32 <clown> due date?
  15 14:38:44 <joanie> don't have one yet.
  16 14:38:47 <joanie> I'll look
  17 14:39:11 <joanie> 28 July
  18 14:39:23 <API> #info due date: 28 July
  19 14:39:28 <joanie> #info Reports are due to the Board by 28 July
  20 14:39:28 <clown> thanks
  21 14:39:53 <API> well, this seems easy,
  22 14:39:54 <joanie> #info Joanie would like to have them sooner as she will need to write the summary and Piñeiro will need to review that summary
  23 14:40:00 <API> any other questions, doubts?
  24 14:40:18 <aleiva> nope
  25 14:40:20 <clown> joanie:  how does Jul 20 sound?
  26 14:40:34 <joanie> given that's a week that sounds fair to me
  27 14:40:50 <aleiva> and after a weekend
  28 14:40:52 <joanie> #info Joseph proposed a due date of 20 July
  29 14:41:07 <joanie> #info Joanie feels that would be ideal
  30 14:41:08 <aleiva> so I think it is positive attendes to atk-hackfest send to somebody their conclusions?
  31 14:41:21 <API> aleiva, send?
  32 14:41:26 <API> what about edit that wiki?
  33 14:41:26 <aleiva> there's some posts about
  34 14:41:27 <API> :P
  35 14:41:28 <joanie> aleiva: we have an entry on the wiki page for that?
  36 14:41:30 <aleiva> oh yes
  37 14:41:31 <aleiva> I mean
  38 14:41:41 <aleiva> somebody == wiki
  39 14:41:49 <aleiva> somebody == somebody that review the wiki
  40 14:41:52 <aleiva> :-)
  41 14:42:49 <API> well, in summary
  42 14:42:55 <API> as atk hackfest happened on q2
  43 14:42:58 <joanie> so aleiva since the reviewers are myself and Piñeiro, are you suggesting that we write that section rather than you and others?
  44 14:43:06 <API> people can fill on the wiki some atk hackfest conclusion
  45 14:43:15 <joanie> alibezz: you will notice that there is an OPW entry
  46 14:43:31 <joanie> it would be helpful if you could add what things we should say about you, it would be super :-)
  47 14:43:53 <joanie> mgorse: if you have AT-SPI2 updates, that would also be good
  48 14:44:37 <mgorse> right
  49 14:45:00 <joanie> clown: brightness, contrast, etc was this quarter, right?
  50 14:45:00 <alibezz> joanie: :)
  51 14:45:30 <clown> joanie, actually no...
  52 14:45:37 <joanie> no?
  53 14:45:41 <clown> that was done end of Jan beginning of Feb I think.
  54 14:45:52 <joanie> you're still working on it I thought?
  55 14:46:00 <clown> yes.
  56 14:46:01 <alibezz> joanie: this "things we should say about you" will be very tricky hehe
  57 14:46:01 <joanie> but ok. whatever cool stuff you've done
  58 14:46:26 <clown> joanie, most of the work on brightness this Q was in terms of settings and prefs dialog.
  59 14:46:28 <joanie> alibezz: I'm sure you can do it :-)
  60 14:46:28 <alibezz> joanie: you mean what I've been working with?
  61 14:46:37 <joanie> and who you are etc.
  62 14:46:51 <joanie> anyhoo, let's wrap this topic up. But people with further questions can ping me
  63 14:46:56 <alibezz> joanie: oh np then. I thought it were something like an auto-evaluation hehe
  64 14:47:09 <clown> but, I"ll double check to see when I made the last change to how the magnifier implemented it.
  65 14:47:16 <joanie> thanks clown!
  66 14:47:21 * API I thought that this point would be really fast :P
  67 14:47:30 <API> ok, so lets move on then
  68 14:47:34 <joanie> API none of my points ever are :-P
  69 14:47:41 <API> you already have the basic premise
  70 14:47:42 <alibezz> hahahaha
  71 14:47:46 <API> you can ask us for the details
  72 14:48:06 <API> #topic Gail integration into Gtk+
  73 14:48:13 <aleiva> joanie: nope that somebody consolidate the info at last
  74 14:48:29 <API> aleiva, we already have enough #info for that point
  75 14:48:34 <API> imho
  76 14:48:49 <API> we don't need to enter in too many details for the minutes
  77 14:49:05 <API> joanie, should we try to gently call company and mclasen for this point?
  78 14:49:17 <API> or you are more or less aware of how gail integration is going?
  79 14:49:25 <joanie> I'm going to draft something
  80 14:49:29 <joanie> and then bounce it off of them
  81 14:49:36 <API> ok
  82 14:49:39 <joanie> oh you mean the next point
  83 14:49:41 <joanie> sorry
  84 14:49:42 * clown are they made of rubber?
  85 14:49:49 <joanie> so....
  86 14:50:08 <joanie> #info Joanie did some regression testing of the gail integation into gtk+
  87 14:50:16 <joanie> #info most things didn't break
  88 14:50:23 <aleiva> topic?
  89 14:50:27 <joanie> #info some things which were broken were already fixed
  90 14:50:32 <joanie> 14:48 < API> #topic Gail integration into Gtk+
  91 14:50:49 <joanie> #info Other things are on this page: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Gailectomy
  92 14:50:51 <aleiva> this screen is small sorry
  93 14:51:07 <joanie> #info Team members other than Joanie should also be testing as the changes in question are pretty significant
  94 14:51:25 <joanie> (not info) And it would seriously suck if we miss something and have a borked GNOME 3.2 release
  95 14:51:42 <joanie> (done)
  96 14:51:51 <API> question: this page is also used by benjamin (aka company)
  97 14:51:59 <API> or it is just for people testing their work?
  98 14:52:11 <joanie> Well, mostly us, but also Benjamin
  99 14:52:31 <joanie> I put stuff on that page when Benjamin says that he doesn't have time at that moment to look at it
 100 14:52:37 <joanie> and/or says it's a non-trivial issue
 101 14:52:43 <joanie> some things he fixes on demand
 102 14:53:25 <joanie> and there are a few more things I need to sort out and add to that page
 103 14:53:39 <joanie> but mostly (from what I've seen thus far) things are not too badly borked
 104 14:53:48 <joanie> BUT, again, others need to test as well; not just me
 105 14:53:53 <joanie> please
 106 14:54:09 <mgorse> We should test gtk 3 apps with custom accessibility implementations, too (gnome-terminal isn't working right now, for instance, because it uses a hack to get at the GailWidget type which doesn't work anymore).. Not sure if that kind of info belongs on that wiki page or not
 107 14:54:26 <joanie> mgorse: it belongs somewhere
 108 14:54:32 <joanie> so.... we can add it to that page
 109 14:54:35 <API> mgorse, it is realted with the work done on gail?
 110 14:54:36 <joanie> I'll add a section
 111 14:54:41 <API> if the answer is "yes"
 112 14:54:48 <API> then I agree that belongs to that page
 113 14:54:50 <API> I mean that
 114 14:54:51 <API> imho
 115 14:54:53 <mgorse> ok
 116 14:55:04 <API> that page is intended to list all the things related with the "gail-to-gtk" integration stuff
 117 14:55:33 <joanie> mgorse: did you open a bug for that issue?
 118 14:55:41 <mgorse> I'm planning on trying to create a patch, but there might be other apps as well that need to be looked at
 119 14:55:48 <mgorse> joanie: no; not yet
 120 14:56:06 <joanie> okay, I'll make a generic entry on the page
 121 14:56:07 <joanie> thanks!
 122 14:56:13 <mgorse> I'll do that after the meeting
 123 14:57:33 <API> hmm, I was thinking on a #info summarizing the last thing
 124 14:57:43 <API> but not sure what to write of
 125 14:57:48 <API> or if we should that
 126 14:57:50 <API> joanie?
 127 14:58:41 <joanie> #info The Gailectomy page should include both those things which have broken in Gtk+ and also those things in other Gtk+ apps which broke as a side effect (e.g. custom implementations)
 128 14:59:38 <API> ok, thanks
 129 14:59:46 <API> so, any other questions comments doubts?
 130 15:01:18 <API> I will interpret the silence
 131 15:01:21 <API> as "no"
 132 15:01:24 <API> so lets move on
 133 15:01:36 <API> #topic GNOME 3.2 progress:
 134 15:01:56 <API> sorry, I can't add anything new from my side
 135 15:01:57 <API> well yes
 136 15:02:00 * joanie wonders if aleiva has any update re the GUI
 137 15:02:17 <API> #info Alejandro P. reviewed some mgorse ATK patches
 138 15:02:33 <API> #info some were accepted, but still pending some of them
 139 15:02:40 <aleiva> joanie: no
 140 15:03:08 <API> #info he also still need to go back to those gnome-shell bugs (stbutton) and a small orca bug (toolkit name change)
 141 15:03:12 <API> ok, I finished
 142 15:03:14 <API> next one!
 143 15:03:37 <joanie> aleiva: When can we expect that to be done?
 144 15:03:51 <joanie> part of Orca's lack of acceptance in the broader community is ugly gui
 145 15:04:00 <joanie> and has nothing to do with actual functionality
 146 15:04:36 <mgorse> #info mgorse fixed a couple of AT-SPI bugs that Joanie found
 147 15:05:27 <joanie> Thanks mgorse! :-)
 148 15:05:36 <clown> #info Bastien N. did a UI review of Joseph's proposed Zoom Options dialog -- gnome-control-center / Universal Access
 149 15:05:38 <aleiva> joanie: my todo list is stalled but I need to do it, it'll be done in the next meeting
 150 15:05:47 <clown> #info see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=643086#c11
 151 15:05:47 <tota11y> 04Bug 643086: normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, NEW, Universal access:  add dialog for zoom options
 152 15:05:54 <clown> #action Joseph will work on a response in the coming week.
 153 15:05:58 <joanie> thanks aleiva
 154 15:05:59 * clown done.
 155 15:06:10 <aleiva> if I don't die in the way ;-)
 156 15:07:53 <API> fer
 157 15:07:54 <API> ?
 158 15:08:03 <API> do you have something to add towards 3.2?
 159 15:08:04 <API> others?
 160 15:08:11 <fer> humm, not really
 161 15:08:25 <aleiva> #info aleiva will review and draft the implementation of the new and shiny orca gui before the next meeting
 162 15:08:43 <joanie> :-)
 163 15:10:48 <API> well, it seems that nobody else have anything to add in this topic
 164 15:11:11 <aleiva> <silence>
 165 15:11:16 <aleiva> go ahead
 166 15:11:21 <API> today it was a somewhat small agenda
 167 15:11:26 <API> so lets move to
 168 15:11:34 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 169 15:11:48 <API> fer, on previous meeting I mentioned a mail that you sent
 170 15:11:52 <aleiva> I want to ask about some BoF or Workshop at desktop summit
 171 15:11:53 <API> to performance-list
 172 15:11:58 <API> some years ago
 173 15:12:04 <fer> about treeview gail performance?
 174 15:12:07 <API> aleiva, I started first, so please let me finish
 175 15:12:15 <API> fer, well, that mail was about
 176 15:12:23 <aleiva> API: no problem
 177 15:12:25 <API> performance with and without a11y enabled
 178 15:12:33 <API> something that came again
 179 15:12:41 <API> some meetings ago people were discussing tools
 180 15:12:51 <API> what did you use to measure that?
 181 15:13:00 <fer> API: sysprof
 182 15:13:29 <fer> IIRC I ran gtktest under sysprof with and without a11y
 183 15:14:07 <API> well, not sure if that tool was discussed on that meeting (I was on holiday)
 184 15:14:09 <API> joanie, ?
 185 15:14:19 <API> I think that you mentioned valgrind and that new gnome-shell
 186 15:14:22 <API> performance tool?
 187 15:14:22 <joanie> I don't think it was
 188 15:14:28 <joanie> but lemme look
 189 15:14:28 <API> ok, so in summary
 190 15:14:29 <aleiva> which one?
 191 15:14:37 <API> aleiva, which one what?
 192 15:14:40 <aleiva> (that new gs profiling tool)
 193 15:14:47 <API> it is in a bug
 194 15:14:50 <API> I don't remember the name
 195 15:15:00 <API> owen taylor is creating new integrated tool
 196 15:15:04 <API> to check gnome-shell performance
 197 15:15:10 <aleiva> I think I saw something at the planet
 198 15:15:12 <API> afaik is gnome-shell specific
 199 15:15:19 <API> yes, owen mentioned something
 200 15:15:24 <API> ok, I will try to summarize it
 201 15:15:28 <joanie> so... that bug
 202 15:15:30 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618189
 203 15:15:31 <tota11y> 04Bug 618189: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Framework for performance measurement
 204 15:15:49 <joanie> API no mention of sysprof
 205 15:15:52 <API> #info in relation with the performance, Piñeiro asks Fer which tool he used to test performance with and without a11y some years ago
 206 15:16:00 <API> #info fer said that he used sysprof
 207 15:16:35 <API> #info we can add that tool to the list of valgrind and the specific gnome-shell performance measurement framework
 208 15:16:39 <API> ok, so
 209 15:16:45 <API> aleiva, what you were saying?
 210 15:17:00 <aleiva> I want to ask about some BoF or Workshop at desktop summit
 211 15:17:06 <aleiva> somebody is preparing it?
 212 15:17:10 <API> well, first question is
 213 15:17:11 <aleiva> are you guys to stay until the end?
 214 15:17:20 <API> who people are going to be at the desktop summit
 215 15:17:37 <clown> not me ... on vacation then.
 216 15:17:39 <API> I didn't start anything because I was not sure about the people there
 217 15:17:42 <aleiva> from my side, jhernandez, juanje ojeda and me
 218 15:18:38 <API> ok, I will be also there
 219 15:18:39 <aleiva> I suposse that all the people that is going to give a talk
 220 15:18:46 <aleiva> in the a11y track
 221 15:18:53 <API> afaik, mclasen and company will be also thre
 222 15:19:02 <API> at least they have a gtk presentation
 223 15:19:04 <API> fer?
 224 15:19:04 <aleiva> frederik
 225 15:19:14 <API> yes, and fregl also has a presentation
 226 15:19:22 <fer> API: yes I am, but not sure if all the days
 227 15:19:40 <API> hmm, ok, it seems that it would be good to think about
 228 15:19:45 <API> there will be more people that I thought
 229 15:19:55 <API> someone knows the due date for the bofh thing?
 230 15:20:18 <aleiva> Workshops & BoFs
 231 15:20:18 <aleiva> Note: Pre-registration deadline is July 3rd!
 232 15:20:26 <aleiva> a bit late it seems
 233 15:20:46 <aleiva> but we can try
 234 15:20:57 <aleiva> For sessions registered after this date, attendees themselves are responsible for finding a time and location for the session. Rooms will be available for this for the duration of the Workshop & BoF days, and the wiki can be used to coordinate.
 235 15:21:10 <API> ok, well, lets try then
 236 15:21:26 <API> #info aleiva ask if there will be a workshop of bof on the desktop summit
 237 15:21:34 <API> #info Piñeiro was not sure about the people there
 238 15:22:01 <API> #info aleiva, jhernandez, juanje, Piñeiro, fregl, mclasen, Company, fer, etc will be there so makes sense
 239 15:22:14 <API> #info we are out of the official due date, but we can try it
 240 15:22:36 <API> #action API will sent a mail trying to see if people are available for this
 241 15:22:40 <API> anything ensel?
 242 15:22:42 <API> wow
 243 15:22:44 <API> anything else?
 244 15:22:48 <clown> is this where we talk about the testing distro?  is that "miscellaneous"?
 245 15:22:57 <aleiva> #action aleiva will try to talk with the desktop summit organization
 246 15:24:18 <API> clown, well yes,
 247 15:24:29 <API> but
 248 15:24:31 <API> fyi
 249 15:24:44 <API> you could have edited the agenda if you knew that wanted to talk
 250 15:24:47 <API> about it :P
 251 15:25:02 * clown note to self:  edit agenda next time...
 252 15:25:08 <joanie> :-)
 253 15:25:09 <API> if not in the future weekly meeting will be just miscellaneous time :P
 254 15:25:11 <fregl> yes, I'll be at the desktop summit the whole week
 255 15:25:12 <aleiva> http://wiki.desktopsummit.org/Workshops_%26_BoFs/2011/accessibility
 256 15:25:16 <aleiva> API: your mail?
 257 15:25:28 <clown> well, API, it *is* in the "Action" section of the "agenda"...
 258 15:25:29 <aleiva> API: found
 259 15:25:49 <joanie> clown: API skipped that section of the meeting ;-)
 260 15:25:50 <clown> nonetheless...
 261 15:26:01 <clown> I tested it, and there are problems...
 262 15:26:07 <clown> The most problematic is that Orca does not launch...
 263 15:26:16 <clown> Something to do with Python...
 264 15:26:21 <joanie> heh
 265 15:26:22 * clown looks up stack trace
 266 15:26:28 <joanie> Looking at the traceback, I'm guessing wnck
 267 15:26:49 <clown> the most important part of the trace:
 268 15:26:52 <clown> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 40, in <module>
 269 15:26:52 <clown> from gtk import _gtk
 270 15:26:52 <clown> ImportError: could not import gobject (could not find _PyGObject_API object)
 271 15:27:03 <aleiva> #info aleiva created a wiki page for the a11y workshop, people that is going to attend please add your name there. http://wiki.desktopsummit.org/Workshops_%26_BoFs/2011/accessibility
 272 15:27:08 <aleiva> sorry for the noise
 273 15:27:16 <clown> I sent email about this to jhernandez, joanie, and API
 274 15:27:42 <clown> noting that jhernandez couldn't attend today's meeting
 275 15:27:47 <API> clown, yes I read that
 276 15:28:01 <clown> anyone understand that error?
 277 15:28:07 <mgorse> I've seen that before, but I don't remember what I did to fix it
 278 15:28:14 <joanie> you didn't include the full traceback
 279 15:28:20 <joanie> but I thought it was mousereview spitting up
 280 15:28:28 <aleiva> API: there's only one python-gobject installed?
 281 15:28:31 <clown> note that that error didn't occur on the previous spin (4.0.2)
 282 15:28:34 <aleiva> s/API/clown
 283 15:28:40 * clown getting full traceback...
 284 15:28:40 <mgorse> It has something to do with pygobject and/or pygtk
 285 15:28:49 <clown> Traceback (most recent call last):
 286 15:28:49 <clown> File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
 287 15:28:49 <clown> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/orca/orca.py", line 546, in <module>
 288 15:28:49 <clown> import mouse_review
 289 15:28:49 <clown> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/orca/mouse_review.py", line 38, in <module>
 290 15:28:50 <clown> import gtk
 291 15:28:52 <clown> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 40, in <module>
 292 15:28:54 <clown> from gtk import _gtk
 293 15:28:56 <clown> ImportError: could not import gobject (could not find _PyGObject_API object)
 294 15:28:59 <clown> yes, Joanie, it involved mouse review.
 295 15:29:00 <aleiva> clown: something similar happens to me in the past, I had installed two versions and depends where it was located it fail
 296 15:29:07 <aleiva> because gobject make a "hardcode" import
 297 15:29:17 <aleiva> check your /usr/local and your base installation
 298 15:29:22 <clown> aleiva:  could you forward that onto jhernandez (or I can send him an email).
 299 15:29:28 <API> aleiva, hmm
 300 15:29:31 <aleiva> clown: yes I can
 301 15:29:34 <API> but the problem here is that this is the testing distro
 302 15:29:50 <API> I mean that things should go smooth without people editing their local installation
 303 15:29:54 <clown> aleiva:  it's not my machine/installation -- it's the a11y testing distro.
 304 15:30:07 <aleiva> well, maybe jhernandez or the base system get touched
 305 15:30:08 <clown> right API.
 306 15:30:23 <clown> yes, as I said, the previous spin did not have this problem.
 307 15:30:27 <aleiva> and there's a bug in the import strategy of gobject
 308 15:30:36 <clown> ah!
 309 15:30:42 <aleiva> I fight with it in the ppast
 310 15:30:47 <clown> bugzilla number?
 311 15:30:51 <aleiva> brf
 312 15:30:58 <aleiva> don't remember I can try to look for it and send to you
 313 15:31:11 <clown> send to me and jhernandez (?)
 314 15:31:24 <aleiva> but, if you check the gobject code, they are using a PEP that allow to bypass the import of python
 315 15:31:30 <aleiva> and
 316 15:31:35 <API> ok, so clown and aleiva in order to finish the meeting
 317 15:31:39 <aleiva> they use a FIXED/HARDCODE path
 318 15:31:42 <API> could you directly summarize this point
 319 15:31:46 <API> with some pretty #info?
 320 15:31:55 <clown> API,  sure (how about some ugly #info)?
 321 15:32:03 <aleiva> #info clown found a problem with python-gobject in the a11y-distro
 322 15:32:18 <aleiva> #info aleiva had the same problem with his installation
 323 15:32:19 * clown let's alieva do the summary
 324 15:32:25 <aleiva> #info aleiva is going to look for the bug
 325 15:32:44 <aleiva> #info aleiva is going to talk with jhernandez to try to fix it and create a new sping of the a11y�-distro
 326 15:32:48 <aleiva> done
 327 15:32:56 <clown> #info clown found no such problem in the previous (4.0.2) spin of the a11y-distro.
 328 15:33:00 <API> ok thanks
 329 15:33:04 * clown done
 330 15:33:06 <API> so, anything else, can I close the meeting?
 331 15:33:13 <aleiva> only 3 minutes later
 332 15:33:14 <aleiva> awesome
 333 15:33:33 <API> ok
 334 15:33:36 <API> #endmeeting