14:35:32 <API> #startmeeting
14:35:32 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jul 14 14:35:32 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:35:32 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:35:42 * joanie waves to aleiva
14:36:25 <API> #topic Q2 quarterly reports
14:36:50 <API> #info emily chen send a mail asking us to fill the q2 quarterly report
14:37:22 <API> joanie do you have at hand the wiki link
14:37:26 <API> of q2 report?
14:37:31 <joanie> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/QuarterlyReports/2011/Q2
14:37:40 <joanie> it's just a skeleton
14:37:46 <joanie> which needs filling out by the team members
14:37:56 <API> #link https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/QuarterlyReports/2011/Q2
14:38:29 <API> #info right now it is only a skeleton, members needs to filling out it
14:38:32 <clown> due date?
14:38:44 <joanie> don't have one yet.
14:38:47 <joanie> I'll look
14:39:11 <joanie> 28 July
14:39:23 <API> #info due date: 28 July
14:39:28 <joanie> #info Reports are due to the Board by 28 July
14:39:28 <clown> thanks
14:39:53 <API> well, this seems easy,
14:39:54 <joanie> #info Joanie would like to have them sooner as she will need to write the summary and Piñeiro will need to review that summary
14:40:00 <API> any other questions, doubts?
14:40:18 <aleiva> nope
14:40:20 <clown> joanie:  how does Jul 20 sound?
14:40:34 <joanie> given that's a week that sounds fair to me
14:40:50 <aleiva> and after a weekend
14:40:52 <joanie> #info Joseph proposed a due date of 20 July
14:41:07 <joanie> #info Joanie feels that would be ideal
14:41:08 <aleiva> so I think it is positive attendes to atk-hackfest send to somebody their conclusions?
14:41:21 <API> aleiva, send?
14:41:26 <API> what about edit that wiki?
14:41:26 <aleiva> there's some posts about
14:41:27 <API> :P
14:41:28 <joanie> aleiva: we have an entry on the wiki page for that?
14:41:30 <aleiva> oh yes
14:41:31 <aleiva> I mean
14:41:41 <aleiva> somebody == wiki
14:41:49 <aleiva> somebody == somebody that review the wiki
14:41:52 <aleiva> :-)
14:42:49 <API> well, in summary
14:42:55 <API> as atk hackfest happened on q2
14:42:58 <joanie> so aleiva since the reviewers are myself and Piñeiro, are you suggesting that we write that section rather than you and others?
14:43:06 <API> people can fill on the wiki some atk hackfest conclusion
14:43:15 <joanie> alibezz: you will notice that there is an OPW entry
14:43:31 <joanie> it would be helpful if you could add what things we should say about you, it would be super :-)
14:43:53 <joanie> mgorse: if you have AT-SPI2 updates, that would also be good
14:44:37 <mgorse> right
14:45:00 <joanie> clown: brightness, contrast, etc was this quarter, right?
14:45:00 <alibezz> joanie: :)
14:45:30 <clown> joanie, actually no...
14:45:37 <joanie> no?
14:45:41 <clown> that was done end of Jan beginning of Feb I think.
14:45:52 <joanie> you're still working on it I thought?
14:46:00 <clown> yes.
14:46:01 <alibezz> joanie: this "things we should say about you" will be very tricky hehe
14:46:01 <joanie> but ok. whatever cool stuff you've done
14:46:26 <clown> joanie, most of the work on brightness this Q was in terms of settings and prefs dialog.
14:46:28 <joanie> alibezz: I'm sure you can do it :-)
14:46:28 <alibezz> joanie: you mean what I've been working with?
14:46:37 <joanie> and who you are etc.
14:46:51 <joanie> anyhoo, let's wrap this topic up. But people with further questions can ping me
14:46:56 <alibezz> joanie: oh np then. I thought it were something like an auto-evaluation hehe
14:47:09 <clown> but, I"ll double check to see when I made the last change to how the magnifier implemented it.
14:47:16 <joanie> thanks clown!
14:47:21 * API I thought that this point would be really fast :P
14:47:30 <API> ok, so lets move on then
14:47:34 <joanie> API none of my points ever are :-P
14:47:41 <API> you already have the basic premise
14:47:42 <alibezz> hahahaha
14:47:46 <API> you can ask us for the details
14:48:06 <API> #topic Gail integration into Gtk+
14:48:13 <aleiva> joanie: nope that somebody consolidate the info at last
14:48:29 <API> aleiva, we already have enough #info for that point
14:48:34 <API> imho
14:48:49 <API> we don't need to enter in too many details for the minutes
14:49:05 <API> joanie, should we try to gently call company and mclasen for this point?
14:49:17 <API> or you are more or less aware of how gail integration is going?
14:49:25 <joanie> I'm going to draft something
14:49:29 <joanie> and then bounce it off of them
14:49:36 <API> ok
14:49:39 <joanie> oh you mean the next point
14:49:41 <joanie> sorry
14:49:42 * clown are they made of rubber?
14:49:49 <joanie> so....
14:50:08 <joanie> #info Joanie did some regression testing of the gail integation into gtk+
14:50:16 <joanie> #info most things didn't break
14:50:23 <aleiva> topic?
14:50:27 <joanie> #info some things which were broken were already fixed
14:50:32 <joanie> 14:48 < API> #topic Gail integration into Gtk+
14:50:49 <joanie> #info Other things are on this page: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Gailectomy
14:50:51 <aleiva> this screen is small sorry
14:51:07 <joanie> #info Team members other than Joanie should also be testing as the changes in question are pretty significant
14:51:25 <joanie> (not info) And it would seriously suck if we miss something and have a borked GNOME 3.2 release
14:51:42 <joanie> (done)
14:51:51 <API> question: this page is also used by benjamin (aka company)
14:51:59 <API> or it is just for people testing their work?
14:52:11 <joanie> Well, mostly us, but also Benjamin
14:52:31 <joanie> I put stuff on that page when Benjamin says that he doesn't have time at that moment to look at it
14:52:37 <joanie> and/or says it's a non-trivial issue
14:52:43 <joanie> some things he fixes on demand
14:53:25 <joanie> and there are a few more things I need to sort out and add to that page
14:53:39 <joanie> but mostly (from what I've seen thus far) things are not too badly borked
14:53:48 <joanie> BUT, again, others need to test as well; not just me
14:53:53 <joanie> please
14:54:09 <mgorse> We should test gtk 3 apps with custom accessibility implementations, too (gnome-terminal isn't working right now, for instance, because it uses a hack to get at the GailWidget type which doesn't work anymore).. Not sure if that kind of info belongs on that wiki page or not
14:54:26 <joanie> mgorse: it belongs somewhere
14:54:32 <joanie> so.... we can add it to that page
14:54:35 <API> mgorse, it is realted with the work done on gail?
14:54:36 <joanie> I'll add a section
14:54:41 <API> if the answer is "yes"
14:54:48 <API> then I agree that belongs to that page
14:54:50 <API> I mean that
14:54:51 <API> imho
14:54:53 <mgorse> ok
14:55:04 <API> that page is intended to list all the things related with the "gail-to-gtk" integration stuff
14:55:33 <joanie> mgorse: did you open a bug for that issue?
14:55:41 <mgorse> I'm planning on trying to create a patch, but there might be other apps as well that need to be looked at
14:55:48 <mgorse> joanie: no; not yet
14:56:06 <joanie> okay, I'll make a generic entry on the page
14:56:07 <joanie> thanks!
14:56:13 <mgorse> I'll do that after the meeting
14:57:33 <API> hmm, I was thinking on a #info summarizing the last thing
14:57:43 <API> but not sure what to write of
14:57:48 <API> or if we should that
14:57:50 <API> joanie?
14:58:41 <joanie> #info The Gailectomy page should include both those things which have broken in Gtk+ and also those things in other Gtk+ apps which broke as a side effect (e.g. custom implementations)
14:59:38 <API> ok, thanks
14:59:46 <API> so, any other questions comments doubts?
15:01:18 <API> I will interpret the silence
15:01:21 <API> as "no"
15:01:24 <API> so lets move on
15:01:36 <API> #topic GNOME 3.2 progress:
15:01:56 <API> sorry, I can't add anything new from my side
15:01:57 <API> well yes
15:02:00 * joanie wonders if aleiva has any update re the GUI
15:02:17 <API> #info Alejandro P. reviewed some mgorse ATK patches
15:02:33 <API> #info some were accepted, but still pending some of them
15:02:40 <aleiva> joanie: no
15:03:08 <API> #info he also still need to go back to those gnome-shell bugs (stbutton) and a small orca bug (toolkit name change)
15:03:12 <API> ok, I finished
15:03:14 <API> next one!
15:03:37 <joanie> aleiva: When can we expect that to be done?
15:03:51 <joanie> part of Orca's lack of acceptance in the broader community is ugly gui
15:04:00 <joanie> and has nothing to do with actual functionality
15:04:36 <mgorse> #info mgorse fixed a couple of AT-SPI bugs that Joanie found
15:05:27 <joanie> Thanks mgorse! :-)
15:05:36 <clown> #info Bastien N. did a UI review of Joseph's proposed Zoom Options dialog -- gnome-control-center / Universal Access
15:05:38 <aleiva> joanie: my todo list is stalled but I need to do it, it'll be done in the next meeting
15:05:47 <clown> #info see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=643086#c11
15:05:47 <tota11y> 04Bug 643086: normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, NEW, Universal access:  add dialog for zoom options
15:05:54 <clown> #action Joseph will work on a response in the coming week.
15:05:58 <joanie> thanks aleiva
15:05:59 * clown done.
15:06:10 <aleiva> if I don't die in the way ;-)
15:07:53 <API> fer
15:07:54 <API> ?
15:08:03 <API> do you have something to add towards 3.2?
15:08:04 <API> others?
15:08:11 <fer> humm, not really
15:08:25 <aleiva> #info aleiva will review and draft the implementation of the new and shiny orca gui before the next meeting
15:08:43 <joanie> :-)
15:10:48 <API> well, it seems that nobody else have anything to add in this topic
15:11:11 <aleiva> <silence>
15:11:16 <aleiva> go ahead
15:11:21 <API> today it was a somewhat small agenda
15:11:26 <API> so lets move to
15:11:34 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
15:11:48 <API> fer, on previous meeting I mentioned a mail that you sent
15:11:52 <aleiva> I want to ask about some BoF or Workshop at desktop summit
15:11:53 <API> to performance-list
15:11:58 <API> some years ago
15:12:04 <fer> about treeview gail performance?
15:12:07 <API> aleiva, I started first, so please let me finish
15:12:15 <API> fer, well, that mail was about
15:12:23 <aleiva> API: no problem
15:12:25 <API> performance with and without a11y enabled
15:12:33 <API> something that came again
15:12:41 <API> some meetings ago people were discussing tools
15:12:51 <API> what did you use to measure that?
15:13:00 <fer> API: sysprof
15:13:29 <fer> IIRC I ran gtktest under sysprof with and without a11y
15:14:07 <API> well, not sure if that tool was discussed on that meeting (I was on holiday)
15:14:09 <API> joanie, ?
15:14:19 <API> I think that you mentioned valgrind and that new gnome-shell
15:14:22 <API> performance tool?
15:14:22 <joanie> I don't think it was
15:14:28 <joanie> but lemme look
15:14:28 <API> ok, so in summary
15:14:29 <aleiva> which one?
15:14:37 <API> aleiva, which one what?
15:14:40 <aleiva> (that new gs profiling tool)
15:14:47 <API> it is in a bug
15:14:50 <API> I don't remember the name
15:15:00 <API> owen taylor is creating new integrated tool
15:15:04 <API> to check gnome-shell performance
15:15:10 <aleiva> I think I saw something at the planet
15:15:12 <API> afaik is gnome-shell specific
15:15:19 <API> yes, owen mentioned something
15:15:24 <API> ok, I will try to summarize it
15:15:28 <joanie> so... that bug
15:15:30 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618189
15:15:31 <tota11y> 04Bug 618189: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Framework for performance measurement
15:15:49 <joanie> API no mention of sysprof
15:15:52 <API> #info in relation with the performance, Piñeiro asks Fer which tool he used to test performance with and without a11y some years ago
15:16:00 <API> #info fer said that he used sysprof
15:16:35 <API> #info we can add that tool to the list of valgrind and the specific gnome-shell performance measurement framework
15:16:39 <API> ok, so
15:16:45 <API> aleiva, what you were saying?
15:17:00 <aleiva> I want to ask about some BoF or Workshop at desktop summit
15:17:06 <aleiva> somebody is preparing it?
15:17:10 <API> well, first question is
15:17:11 <aleiva> are you guys to stay until the end?
15:17:20 <API> who people are going to be at the desktop summit
15:17:37 <clown> not me ... on vacation then.
15:17:39 <API> I didn't start anything because I was not sure about the people there
15:17:42 <aleiva> from my side, jhernandez, juanje ojeda and me
15:18:38 <API> ok, I will be also there
15:18:39 <aleiva> I suposse that all the people that is going to give a talk
15:18:46 <aleiva> in the a11y track
15:18:53 <API> afaik, mclasen and company will be also thre
15:19:02 <API> at least they have a gtk presentation
15:19:04 <API> fer?
15:19:04 <aleiva> frederik
15:19:14 <API> yes, and fregl also has a presentation
15:19:22 <fer> API: yes I am, but not sure if all the days
15:19:40 <API> hmm, ok, it seems that it would be good to think about
15:19:45 <API> there will be more people that I thought
15:19:55 <API> someone knows the due date for the bofh thing?
15:20:18 <aleiva> Workshops & BoFs
15:20:18 <aleiva> Note: Pre-registration deadline is July 3rd!
15:20:26 <aleiva> a bit late it seems
15:20:46 <aleiva> but we can try
15:20:57 <aleiva> For sessions registered after this date, attendees themselves are responsible for finding a time and location for the session. Rooms will be available for this for the duration of the Workshop & BoF days, and the wiki can be used to coordinate.
15:21:10 <API> ok, well, lets try then
15:21:26 <API> #info aleiva ask if there will be a workshop of bof on the desktop summit
15:21:34 <API> #info Piñeiro was not sure about the people there
15:22:01 <API> #info aleiva, jhernandez, juanje, Piñeiro, fregl, mclasen, Company, fer, etc will be there so makes sense
15:22:14 <API> #info we are out of the official due date, but we can try it
15:22:36 <API> #action API will sent a mail trying to see if people are available for this
15:22:40 <API> anything ensel?
15:22:42 <API> wow
15:22:44 <API> anything else?
15:22:48 <clown> is this where we talk about the testing distro?  is that "miscellaneous"?
15:22:57 <aleiva> #action aleiva will try to talk with the desktop summit organization
15:24:18 <API> clown, well yes,
15:24:29 <API> but
15:24:31 <API> fyi
15:24:44 <API> you could have edited the agenda if you knew that wanted to talk
15:24:47 <API> about it :P
15:25:02 * clown note to self:  edit agenda next time...
15:25:08 <joanie> :-)
15:25:09 <API> if not in the future weekly meeting will be just miscellaneous time :P
15:25:11 <fregl> yes, I'll be at the desktop summit the whole week
15:25:12 <aleiva> http://wiki.desktopsummit.org/Workshops_%26_BoFs/2011/accessibility
15:25:16 <aleiva> API: your mail?
15:25:28 <clown> well, API, it *is* in the "Action" section of the "agenda"...
15:25:29 <aleiva> API: found
15:25:49 <joanie> clown: API skipped that section of the meeting ;-)
15:25:50 <clown> nonetheless...
15:26:01 <clown> I tested it, and there are problems...
15:26:07 <clown> The most problematic is that Orca does not launch...
15:26:16 <clown> Something to do with Python...
15:26:21 <joanie> heh
15:26:22 * clown looks up stack trace
15:26:28 <joanie> Looking at the traceback, I'm guessing wnck
15:26:49 <clown> the most important part of the trace:
15:26:52 <clown> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 40, in <module>
15:26:52 <clown> from gtk import _gtk
15:26:52 <clown> ImportError: could not import gobject (could not find _PyGObject_API object)
15:27:03 <aleiva> #info aleiva created a wiki page for the a11y workshop, people that is going to attend please add your name there. http://wiki.desktopsummit.org/Workshops_%26_BoFs/2011/accessibility
15:27:08 <aleiva> sorry for the noise
15:27:16 <clown> I sent email about this to jhernandez, joanie, and API
15:27:42 <clown> noting that jhernandez couldn't attend today's meeting
15:27:47 <API> clown, yes I read that
15:28:01 <clown> anyone understand that error?
15:28:07 <mgorse> I've seen that before, but I don't remember what I did to fix it
15:28:14 <joanie> you didn't include the full traceback
15:28:20 <joanie> but I thought it was mousereview spitting up
15:28:28 <aleiva> API: there's only one python-gobject installed?
15:28:31 <clown> note that that error didn't occur on the previous spin (4.0.2)
15:28:34 <aleiva> s/API/clown
15:28:40 * clown getting full traceback...
15:28:40 <mgorse> It has something to do with pygobject and/or pygtk
15:28:49 <clown> Traceback (most recent call last):
15:28:49 <clown> File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
15:28:49 <clown> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/orca/orca.py", line 546, in <module>
15:28:49 <clown> import mouse_review
15:28:49 <clown> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/orca/mouse_review.py", line 38, in <module>
15:28:50 <clown> import gtk
15:28:52 <clown> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 40, in <module>
15:28:54 <clown> from gtk import _gtk
15:28:56 <clown> ImportError: could not import gobject (could not find _PyGObject_API object)
15:28:59 <clown> yes, Joanie, it involved mouse review.
15:29:00 <aleiva> clown: something similar happens to me in the past, I had installed two versions and depends where it was located it fail
15:29:07 <aleiva> because gobject make a "hardcode" import
15:29:17 <aleiva> check your /usr/local and your base installation
15:29:22 <clown> aleiva:  could you forward that onto jhernandez (or I can send him an email).
15:29:28 <API> aleiva, hmm
15:29:31 <aleiva> clown: yes I can
15:29:34 <API> but the problem here is that this is the testing distro
15:29:50 <API> I mean that things should go smooth without people editing their local installation
15:29:54 <clown> aleiva:  it's not my machine/installation -- it's the a11y testing distro.
15:30:07 <aleiva> well, maybe jhernandez or the base system get touched
15:30:08 <clown> right API.
15:30:23 <clown> yes, as I said, the previous spin did not have this problem.
15:30:27 <aleiva> and there's a bug in the import strategy of gobject
15:30:36 <clown> ah!
15:30:42 <aleiva> I fight with it in the ppast
15:30:47 <clown> bugzilla number?
15:30:51 <aleiva> brf
15:30:58 <aleiva> don't remember I can try to look for it and send to you
15:31:11 <clown> send to me and jhernandez (?)
15:31:24 <aleiva> but, if you check the gobject code, they are using a PEP that allow to bypass the import of python
15:31:30 <aleiva> and
15:31:35 <API> ok, so clown and aleiva in order to finish the meeting
15:31:39 <aleiva> they use a FIXED/HARDCODE path
15:31:42 <API> could you directly summarize this point
15:31:46 <API> with some pretty #info?
15:31:55 <clown> API,  sure (how about some ugly #info)?
15:32:03 <aleiva> #info clown found a problem with python-gobject in the a11y-distro
15:32:18 <aleiva> #info aleiva had the same problem with his installation
15:32:19 * clown let's alieva do the summary
15:32:25 <aleiva> #info aleiva is going to look for the bug
15:32:44 <aleiva> #info aleiva is going to talk with jhernandez to try to fix it and create a new sping of the a11y�-distro
15:32:48 <aleiva> done
15:32:56 <clown> #info clown found no such problem in the previous (4.0.2) spin of the a11y-distro.
15:33:00 <API> ok thanks
15:33:04 * clown done
15:33:06 <API> so, anything else, can I close the meeting?
15:33:13 <aleiva> only 3 minutes later
15:33:14 <aleiva> awesome
15:33:33 <API> ok
15:33:36 <API> #endmeeting