1 14:36:33 <joanie> #startmeeting
   2 14:36:33 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jun 30 14:36:33 2011 UTC.  The chair is joanie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 14:36:33 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 14:36:53 <joanie> #topic 1.1 Call for volunteers: Quantifying improvement from Mike's change to only emit events if an AT is listening.
   5 14:37:16 <joanie> #info Mike has made the changes needed to only emit events if an AT is listening.
   6 14:37:55 <joanie> #info This change might in theory solve much of the broader community's concerns about enabling AT support by default due to performance problems.
   7 14:38:22 <joanie> #info It would be ideal if someone could verify this in some proven, respectable, convincing, with numbersy sort of way.
   8 14:38:27 * joanie opens floor up
   9 14:38:31 <bnitz> It sounds like a great fix.  Are you looking for quantifying some of the performance improvements?
  10 14:38:54 <bnitz> Thanks you answered my questions and type faster than me.
  11 14:39:06 <joanie> I would like to have data that says "There is no performance hit whatsoever if AT is enabled by default but no ATs are listening."
  12 14:39:15 <joanie> So how can we get this data?
  13 14:40:17 * joanie reminds everyone that she is a teacher and she will start calling on people. :-P
  14 14:40:26 <jhernandez> xDD
  15 14:40:45 <bnitz> joanie:I wonder if some of the existing mago tests could verify this.
  16 14:40:46 <jhernandez> gtk-perf could be usefull for to check the performance
  17 14:41:04 <jhernandez> isn't it?
  18 14:41:09 <joanie> bnitz: you first than jhernandez. Please elaborate
  19 14:41:10 <bnitz> jhernandez:I thought that might be at too low of a level.
  20 14:41:44 <bnitz> The mago test community maintains some scripts which do things for various applications.
  21 14:42:03 <bnitz> I think it's well maintained and works well for ubuntu, less so for other distros.
  22 14:42:09 * bnitz looks for link.
  23 14:42:27 <joanie> jhernandez: While bnitz is looking for a link....
  24 14:42:31 <fregl> it would also be interesting to measure memory in addition to cpu - that is doable with valgrind --tool=callgrind
  25 14:42:52 <joanie> do you have knowledge about gtk-perf sufficient to write such a test?
  26 14:43:05 <joanie> fregl: makes sense
  27 14:43:07 <jhernandez> joanie: no i don't
  28 14:43:49 <joanie> fregl: could valgrind be *the* tool (memory+cpu)?
  29 14:44:04 <bnitz> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mago-contributors/mago/mago-testsuite/files
  30 14:44:10 <joanie> thanks bnitz
  31 14:44:42 <jhernandez> i know about gtk-perf and since the main problem is the performance, I was suggesting gtk-perf as a quick/easy/first approachment
  32 14:44:45 <fregl> joanie: memory definitively. cpu maybe with a different tool but rather not.
  33 14:45:18 <joanie> fregl: you know enough about valgrind to create the memory test?
  34 14:45:53 <fregl> sorry, but I don't have time nor enthusiasm. but if someone wants to run this I can tell the command line basics how to do this.
  35 14:46:00 <bnitz> Any BSD people here?  I have some dtrace based launch performance scripts, they look for when an application maps to the X server.
  36 14:46:08 <joanie> fregl: understood. And thanks.
  37 14:46:51 <joanie> As much as I love dtrace, the "typical" gnome environments now are Fedora 15 and Ubuntu.
  38 14:47:34 <mgorse> I don't think it's that hard to figure out valgrind--it has a manpage, anyway--I think the hard part will be figuring out what to test
  39 14:47:36 <bnitz> This patch looks cool  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618189   A facility for scripting the (gnome)-shell to generate performance events, and    then replaying the log to collect "metrics"
  40 14:47:36 <tota11y> 04Bug 618189: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Framework for performance measurement
  41 14:47:42 <clown> backing up a bit for clarification:  improving performance implies a comparison -- is the comparison between (1) AT enabled by default vs. (2) AT enabled only when at least one AT is listening?  Or (1) no AT enabled vs (2) AT enabled when one AT is listening?  Or both?
  42 14:47:51 <bnitz> great minds...
  43 14:48:08 <bnitz> tota11y I think this could be the most useful/easy to use.
  44 14:48:08 <tota11y> bnitz: Error: "I" is not a valid command.
  45 14:48:31 <clown> note that ubuntu doesn't use gnome-shell..
  46 14:48:45 <joanie> First and foremost, clown, I think we want to compare: AT support disabled and AT support enabled but no ATs listening
  47 14:48:52 <joanie> clown: oneiric has it
  48 14:49:16 <joanie> but to back up for everyone for clarification
  49 14:49:34 <joanie> the broader (not us) GNOME community (including Release Team, etc.) have the following claim:
  50 14:49:53 <fregl> I stand corrected, collegues tell me valgrind is supposed to be good for cpu testing also
  51 14:49:54 <joanie> "We cannot enable AT support by default because it drags the desktop to a halt even when no ATs are being used."
  52 14:50:15 <joanie> I would like to make a case that boils down to "Your assertion is now bogus." ;-)
  53 14:50:33 <joanie> But we need to know if it is indeed bogus before we make our own bogus claims. :-)
  54 14:50:40 <joanie> mgorse did the work
  55 14:50:46 <joanie> Now we need the testing and data
  56 14:50:52 <joanie> fregl: cool, thanks for the update
  57 14:51:14 <joanie> So valgrind sounds like it might be the tool and mgorse doesn't think it would be that hard to learn
  58 14:51:33 <bnitz> As much as I like valgrind, I don't think this can be our one tool, it may give us useful bits of information though.  CPU+memory doesn't necessarily correlate to user-perceived performance.
  59 14:51:55 <joanie> bnitz: fair enough
  60 14:52:07 <joanie> how do you propose we measure user-perceived performance?
  61 14:52:09 <fregl> bnitz: it's about numbers not perception I thought
  62 14:52:11 <joanie> other than by user testing?
  63 14:52:32 <TheMuso> p/c
  64 14:52:47 <joanie> If we were to have the numbers, we could go to the RT and say "look, all fixed!"
  65 14:52:53 <joanie> and they could then see what they perceive
  66 14:52:55 <bnitz> #info what about ShellPerfLog (the tool I mentioned ealier) https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618189
  67 14:52:55 <tota11y> 04Bug 618189: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Framework for performance measurement
  68 14:52:56 <korn> For Joanie's assertion, wouldn't numbers actually be the better thing?
  69 14:53:46 <joanie> Well, that tool has Owen's name all over it. So perhaps valgrind plus that.
  70 14:53:49 <joanie> ;-)
  71 14:54:00 <joanie> Anyhoo I don't want to spend the whole meeting on this topic.
  72 14:54:07 <joanie> mgorse: This is your fix we're testing and you know what we're looking for. What's your time these days like?
  73 14:54:19 <joanie> i.e. could you look into valgrind
  74 14:54:21 <clown> numbers are a good thing.  still, note that they will probably show some greater use of resources -- for what value do you say that this greater use == "drags the desktop to a halt"?
  75 14:54:23 <joanie> to get us these numbers
  76 14:54:36 <bnitz> joanie:One step down from manual testing with a stopwatch.  Automate launch and other user activity.  Timestamp
  77 14:54:48 <bnitz> Look at times between timestamps.
  78 14:54:54 <joanie> bnitz: we could do that
  79 14:55:06 <joanie> At this point I need volunteers. :-)
  80 14:55:19 <joanie> Who can do what -- not just in spirit and knowledge, but in time?
  81 14:56:03 <mgorse> I think I should write to some list (desktop-devel maybe), explain the change, and ask if people have things in particular that seem slow / that should be tested
  82 14:56:31 <clown> mgorse:  +1
  83 14:56:49 <bnitz> I can investigate the options but I don't have a good/popular test execution environment
  84 14:56:52 <clown> of course, they might answer :  "the desktop is slow".
  85 14:56:54 <joanie> We know the culprits though: Trees :-)
  86 14:56:59 <joanie> clown: yup
  87 14:57:21 <|Lupin|> hello, there
  88 14:57:23 <bnitz> Unless our A11yTest distro running in a virtual box displayed via Sunray will be our gold standard ;-)
  89 14:57:34 <joanie> hahaha
  90 14:57:36 <joanie> anyhoo let's move on
  91 14:57:43 <clown> bnitz:  fabulous benchmark, that!
  92 14:57:56 <bnitz> yep
  93 14:58:32 <joanie> #info Valgrind might be a good solution. The tool for gnome-shell from bug 618189 might as well. Lastly, just timestamping typical activities.
  94 14:58:32 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618189 normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Framework for performance measurement
  95 14:58:37 <clown> must run that distro from a 1x CD drive.
  96 14:58:49 <joanie> #info No one at the meeting could volunteer their time for these tasks.
  97 14:58:54 <mgorse> I can probably do some kind of testing as long as it doesn't require me to actually read the screen without Orca running :) In that case I'd need to figure out what needs doing and could come up with a plan at least
  98 14:59:18 <joanie> #action Joanie will investigate what other resources we have/can draw upon to achieve this work.
  99 14:59:28 <joanie> mgorse: perhaps we can tag team it
 100 14:59:32 <joanie> I dunno valgrind
 101 14:59:45 <bnitz> mgorse: didn't you have a basic pyatspi test, give me all children of this accessible 1000 times or something like that?
 102 14:59:45 <joanie> but if you get me up to speed and provide a test which theoretically should work, I can run it.
 103 14:59:50 <clown> any idea what the learning curve is for valgrind?
 104 14:59:58 <bnitz> Maybe too far from the real world use.
 105 15:00:29 <mgorse> bnitz: I don't think I've do at the moment; I've written things like that before but wouldn't help with what we're trying to do now
 106 15:00:32 <joanie> anyhoo, 25 minutes into this meeting, I'd like to move on.
 107 15:00:35 <joanie> sorry!!
 108 15:00:49 <joanie> #topic 1.2 call for volunteers: Writing tests for the Gail into Gtk merge.
 109 15:01:07 <bnitz> # Action brian to investigate gnome-shell --perf=<script>
 110 15:01:28 <joanie> #info The Gail to Gtk integration is moving along pretty rapidly and there is talk about integrating the 'a11y' gtk branch into master soon.
 111 15:01:46 <joanie> #info We need more tests written, and we need the output of the existing tests verified.
 112 15:02:07 <joanie> #info Joanie has looked through the existing tests and is starting to write new ones. But other help would be greatly appreciated.
 113 15:02:13 * joanie yields floor
 114 15:02:23 <mgorse> These tests are glade files, right?
 115 15:02:24 <clown> joanie:  are these unit tests?
 116 15:02:53 <joanie> These are the accessibility-dump tests Benjamin (company) talked about last week.
 117 15:03:32 <clown> which examined a glade file, and dumped out the a11y tree?
 118 15:03:33 <joanie> mgorse: but can be written in text editors if need be. They are pretty simple files if you look.
 119 15:03:41 <joanie> clown: yup
 120 15:04:14 <clown> is it possible to create a dump of what should be output to compare with the actual dump?
 121 15:04:40 <joanie> What I have done is generated the output using Gtk+ 3 master (rather than the a11y branch)
 122 15:04:59 <joanie> so that when they test it with the a11y branch, differences will be caught
 123 15:05:11 <joanie> and then proofed the text output for a sanity check
 124 15:05:18 <clown> what does "test it with the a11y branch" mean?
 125 15:05:20 <joanie> looking for anything obviously borked
 126 15:05:45 <TheMuso> There is a branch of gtk in git where the gail merge work is being done.
 127 15:05:48 <mgorse> Where are these tests? Are they in the gtk+ repository?
 128 15:05:54 <joanie> well, the a11y branch of gtk+ is where Benjamin and Matthias are moving all of gail into Gtk itself
 129 15:06:11 <joanie> mgorse: they are in the gtk+ repository under the a11y branch
 130 15:06:18 <joanie> in gtk+/tests/a11y
 131 15:06:27 <mgorse> thanks
 132 15:06:43 <joanie> anyhoo, we need to move on. But please everyone, write tests, read tests, etc.
 133 15:06:50 <joanie> this merge is going to happen
 134 15:07:18 <joanie> #topic 1.3 Call for volunteers: Best practices guide for implementing accessible objects.
 135 15:07:40 <joanie> #info Joanie and Frederik are going to resume working on this task from the ATK hackfest
 136 15:08:08 <joanie> #info The Gail into Gtk work is including some "best practices" style changes that are not documented.
 137 15:08:34 <joanie> #info We really need to get a "best practices" guide on the object hierarchy, roles, properties, and such out.
 138 15:08:50 <joanie> #info Joanie and Frederik would not mind volunteers on this front. :-)
 139 15:08:52 <fregl> clown: for valgrind there is no real learning curve. it is  a one line command that dumps lots of data into files. then you need a tool to visualize the result.
 140 15:09:12 <clown> fregl:  thanks.
 141 15:09:13 <bnitz> joanie:Are these new tests?
 142 15:09:22 <aleiva> in fact is something like a format
 143 15:09:23 <joanie> bnitz: which tests?
 144 15:09:46 <aleiva> but why we need a C debugger?
 145 15:09:53 * clown it's a volunteer meeting...
 146 15:09:55 <aleiva> maybe i am late
 147 15:09:57 <bnitz> joanie: gtk+/tests/a11y
 148 15:09:57 * joanie laughs
 149 15:10:04 <joanie> bnitz: See http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Minutes/20110623
 150 15:10:20 <joanie> clown: this is why I want to move through this stuff.
 151 15:10:22 <joanie> BUT
 152 15:10:38 <joanie> the thing is, we have a crapload of stuff that needs doing
 153 15:10:45 <aleiva> sure
 154 15:10:46 <joanie> and we need folks who can pitch in to pitch in
 155 15:11:13 <joanie> So I'm asking, nay begging
 156 15:11:25 <clown> you might try nagging...
 157 15:11:34 <joanie> that's next
 158 15:11:36 <joanie> ;-)
 159 15:11:40 <aleiva> well nagging is not an option
 160 15:11:46 <aleiva> IMHO
 161 15:11:49 <joanie> aleiva: Says who?
 162 15:11:53 <joanie> :-P
 163 15:12:09 <aleiva> so we need to assign task and get it done
 164 15:12:17 <joanie> aleiva: Yep
 165 15:12:17 <clown> how about "gentle encouragement"?
 166 15:12:28 <aleiva> clown, that sounds good
 167 15:12:30 <joanie> aleiva: Can we put you down for any of these tasks?
 168 15:12:39 <aleiva> clown do you have some options
 169 15:12:50 <aleiva> joanie dunno
 170 15:12:58 <aleiva> Im late, sorry
 171 15:12:59 <clown> aleiva:  not sure what you mean by "options"
 172 15:13:12 <aleiva> clown possibilities
 173 15:13:20 <aleiva> people willing to work
 174 15:14:01 <clown> aleiva:  I'm willing to work -- that's not the problem.  the problem is the myriad other things I have to do.  So ...  I'll think about it, and try to fit it in where I can.
 175 15:14:26 <aleiva> clown: I understand you very well
 176 15:14:53 <aleiva> what I was saying is about other options
 177 15:14:55 <joanie> Well, the last item I won't even bother with as a topic as we don't have volunteers for anythign more pressing
 178 15:15:02 <aleiva> yup
 179 15:15:04 <joanie> the wiki and docs, etc. bite
 180 15:15:10 <joanie> anyhoo.... moving on
 181 15:15:18 <joanie> #topic GAIL treeview children / children-changed signals with no child argument
 182 15:15:25 <joanie> mgorse: you added that I believe
 183 15:15:27 <joanie> floor is yours
 184 15:15:31 <mgorse> yeah
 185 15:15:50 <alibezz> joanie I didn`t candidate for more pressing things because I lack experience
 186 15:16:00 <mgorse> Currently, it can be expensive to ref a child of a tree view in gail
 187 15:16:09 <alibezz> but if I can help with the wiki/guide, I`m willing for that
 188 15:16:21 <aleiva> nice
 189 15:16:24 <joanie> alibezz: Ok, let's talk after the meeting
 190 15:16:26 <joanie> thanks!
 191 15:16:40 <mgorse> and, when a child is added to a tree view, it sends a children-changed event with no detail for the child
 192 15:17:03 <joanie> mgorse: ah, this is what we were talking about last night, right?
 193 15:17:15 <mgorse> joanie: yeah
 194 15:17:43 <mgorse> Currently, if atk-bridge sees a NULL child for a children-changed event, it calls atk_object_ref_accessible_child to fetch the child
 195 15:18:09 <mgorse> A while ago, Li identified this as causing a performance issue for tree views, and I thought that I'd removed that behavior in AT-SPI2, but apparently I hadn't
 196 15:18:49 <mgorse> but it can be expensive particularly if a lot of rows are added, and so children-changed events keep getting fired for new cells, and gail needs to keep crawling through the tree to fetch the given child
 197 15:19:18 <joanie> mgorse: yup. Can you remove that call? Or is something preventing you from doing so?
 198 15:19:56 <mgorse> joanie: I'd like to do that, but, after talking to you, I'm realizing that some things would need to be tested after doing it
 199 15:20:07 <bnitz> mgorse:Was that your example with spreadsheets as well or is that a different bug.
 200 15:20:21 <mgorse> ie, Gecko and Impress, I guess
 201 15:20:33 <joanie> Oh right....
 202 15:20:47 <joanie> But would the removal be just for trees/tables?
 203 15:21:01 <mgorse> bnitz: If you mean the LibreOffice crash, then that's a different bug
 204 15:21:18 <bnitz> ok
 205 15:22:34 <joanie> mgorse: If it's just for trees/tables it might be safe
 206 15:22:45 <mgorse> I'd like to just remove the call and only send the child if the atk implementor provides it. I'm guessing that in practice making that change should only affect trees/tables, but would need to test that, since it's possible that some other toolkit is doing something I wasn't expecting and atk-bridge has been working around it
 207 15:22:46 <joanie> and is there some way to do it "lazily"?
 208 15:23:45 <joanie> Well, trees and tables are also amongst the chief "a11y sucks" complaints we hear. So perhaps it would make sense to open a bug, attach a patch, and recruit testers?
 209 15:23:58 <fregl> this boils down to actually having defined what should happen when a tree changes again
 210 15:24:38 <mgorse> That's an interesting question, whether it could somehow be done lazily. I'd need to think about that. Anyway, filing a bug seems like a good idea to me
 211 15:24:52 <joanie> mgorse: okay.
 212 15:25:01 <joanie> mgorse: could you #info this for the minutes?
 213 15:25:45 <mgorse> #info Currently, atk-bridge calls atk_object_ref_accessible_child for a children-changed event sent without a child
 214 15:26:14 <mgorse> #info This may be a significant performance hit, and may be better to remove it. Will probably mainly affect gail trees, but need to test that it doesn't affect other things as well.
 215 15:26:33 <fregl> I would love to have a signal to say: this tree has become invalid. sending all changes seems quite big. In iaccessible2 there is TableModelChanged which signals changes. then the client can ask for the details by calling some other function
 216 15:26:37 <mgorse> #action mgorse will file a bug to remove the check, attach a patch, and call for testers
 217 15:26:53 <joanie> Thanks mgorse!
 218 15:27:07 <mgorse> and, yeah, I think it gets into what best practices should be for trees
 219 15:27:18 <joanie> fregl: I believe we already have a bug for that too
 220 15:27:23 <fregl> ok
 221 15:27:33 <joanie> I'll look momentarily
 222 15:27:40 <fregl> I need to leave, damn, this is really interesting
 223 15:27:45 <joanie> Given the time and who is here today....
 224 15:27:49 <fregl> I'll read the backlog laters
 225 15:27:51 <joanie> I'm skipping a topic
 226 15:27:57 <joanie> #topic Action item updates
 227 15:28:03 * joanie calls on people :-)
 228 15:28:13 <joanie> jhernandez: test distro final spin?
 229 15:28:18 <joanie> (#info it)
 230 15:28:58 <jhernandez> ok
 231 15:29:42 <jhernandez> #info at this moment I'm syncing and rebuilding with latest versions. I hope to get some time for to build the spin this weekend or next week
 232 15:29:57 <bnitz> jhernandez final?  That's good news for the tinderbox I'm basing off of it, but how is anything GNOME 3.?? ever final?
 233 15:30:22 <jhernandez> bnitz: final only for a11y testing pursposes
 234 15:30:28 <jhernandez> *purposes
 235 15:30:56 <clown> jhernandez: did you get my email about the mag prefs dialog possibly having problems?  I'd like to try out the spin to check that before we publish it.
 236 15:30:59 <bnitz> jhernandez:To be replaced/superceeded by?
 237 15:31:12 <jhernandez> I'm going to work in another testing spins for the 3.2 series, but not only for a11y
 238 15:31:39 <bnitz> A general purpose GNOME 3.2 test distro?  Sounds reasonable as long as it does A11y.
 239 15:31:40 <jhernandez> clown: sure! I'll pass you the link before publish it ;)
 240 15:31:48 <clown> jhernandez:  thanks.
 241 15:31:51 <jhernandez> bnitz: yep
 242 15:31:53 <bnitz> OpenSuSE based?
 243 15:32:17 <jhernandez> bnitz: at this moment is the easiest one, but opensuse's not my favourite distro :P
 244 15:32:18 <joanie> bnitz: you have a couple of action items yourself ;-)
 245 15:32:23 <joanie> Send a mail summarizing his proposal regarding a testing-centered design.
 246 15:32:31 <joanie> Announce his Mago tests on the gnome-accessibility-devel list, and also create a README and INSTALL.
 247 15:32:34 <joanie> any updates
 248 15:32:35 <joanie> ?
 249 15:32:40 <bnitz> Yes I do and they're still open.  Sorry.
 250 15:32:49 <joanie> That's ok. just checking
 251 15:32:54 <joanie> clown:
 252 15:32:59 <joanie> Investigate if it is feasible to call libatspi using javascript (ie: on gnome-shell)
 253 15:33:21 <clown> joanie:  as far as I can tell, there are no JS bindings to atspi
 254 15:33:38 <joanie> silly question: Can this be introspected?
 255 15:33:55 <clown> there are some for Atk, still investigating the extent of those bindings.
 256 15:34:31 <clown> re "introspected":  not sure.
 257 15:35:02 <mgorse> clown: Do the atk bindings you mentioned involve introspection?
 258 15:35:18 <clown> I assume so -- how can I tell?
 259 15:35:45 <clown> all I do is "const Atk = imports.gi.Atk"
 260 15:36:02 <clown> and voila, there is a JS object for the Atk namespace.
 261 15:36:19 <mgorse> Okay; looks like it then. Does imports.gi.Atspi not work?
 262 15:36:32 <clown> but I can't find a similar incantation  for Atspi
 263 15:36:46 <clown> mgorse:  let me check right now.
 264 15:37:01 <joanie> so while clown is checking, and given the time.
 265 15:37:03 <TheMuso> Why would you want to use at-spi from within gnome-shell?
 266 15:37:13 <joanie> #topic Miscellaneous Time
 267 15:37:16 <TheMuso> actually, donn't mind me, just worked it out
 268 15:37:24 <clown> !  that worked.  at least now complaints about not finding it.
 269 15:37:24 <tota11y> clown: Error: "that" is not a valid command.
 270 15:37:31 <joanie> lol
 271 15:37:35 * clown thatnks tota11y
 272 15:37:46 <joanie> I need to smartify the bot
 273 15:37:54 <alibezz> I have a misc news ?)
 274 15:38:02 <joanie> alibezz: go for it
 275 15:38:04 <alibezz> two days ago, I gave an interview for Og Maciel
 276 15:38:07 <clown> mgorse:  much thanks for that suggestion.  I'll explore further...
 277 15:38:15 <alibezz> it was for a podcast in portuguese
 278 15:38:33 <alibezz> and it was mainly about my involvement with gnome and accerciser, in particula
 279 15:38:42 <alibezz> I spent a good time explaining the tool
 280 15:38:47 <alibezz> and why it is useful
 281 15:38:55 <alibezz> and how I came up to work with it
 282 15:39:04 <alibezz> it`ll be online in a month or so here
 283 15:39:09 * alibezz looks for link...
 284 15:39:16 <alibezz> http://www.castalio.info/
 285 15:39:25 <bnitz> Thanks alibezz, that sounds great!
 286 15:39:31 <joanie> very cool alibezz!
 287 15:39:47 <alibezz> another news is that, yesterday
 288 15:40:07 <alibezz> a friend of mine who organizes a free software event called ensol
 289 15:40:23 <alibezz> asked me if I were interested in talking about Accerciser
 290 15:40:24 <jhernandez> alibezz: you rocks!!!
 291 15:40:28 <alibezz> and accessibility
 292 15:40:30 <alibezz> in august
 293 15:40:37 <clown> #info there is a way to import atspi into JavaScript (gjs), namely "imports.gi.Atspi".
 294 15:40:42 <jhernandez> i saw your tweet about the podcast
 295 15:40:44 <alibezz> it`s not set already, but it`s quite likely
 296 15:40:48 <alibezz> xD
 297 15:41:12 <alibezz> thanks! It`s awesome to talk about accerciser
 298 15:41:21 <alibezz> accessibility isn`t a very difunded topic in Brazil
 299 15:41:37 <joanie> anyhoo, anyone else?
 300 15:41:45 <joanie> or shall I bang the gavel to end the meeting?
 301 15:41:46 <|Lupin|> pls
 302 15:41:49 <|Lupin|> just one quick thing
 303 15:41:55 <|Lupin|> (hello, everybody)
 304 15:41:56 <alibezz> joanie, should I #info that?
 305 15:42:03 <joanie> alibezz: please :-)
 306 15:42:19 <|Lupin|> may I ?
 307 15:43:03 <alibezz> #info alibezz gave an interview for Og Macial about her involvement with GNOME and specially with Accerciser. It`s going to be online in a month or so here http://www.castalio.info/
 308 15:43:12 <alibezz> s/Macial/Maciel
 309 15:43:29 * alibezz waves to |Lupin|
 310 15:43:37 <|Lupin|> alibezz: thx
 311 15:43:43 <|Lupin|> well right after the meeting
 312 15:43:53 <|Lupin|> I'd like to show you a very old bug
 313 15:43:58 <|Lupin|> on #a11y
 314 15:44:10 <|Lupin|> so it wold be great if you gys could take a few minutes to have a look to it.
 315 15:44:30 <joanie> and with that, we're over time
 316 15:44:33 <clown> #action Joseph to explore the JavaScript Atspi import further to see how much is available.
 317 15:44:33 <joanie> #endmeeting