1 14:35:41 <joanie> #startmeeting
   2 14:35:41 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu May 26 14:35:41 2011 UTC.  The chair is joanie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 14:35:41 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 14:35:58 <joanie> #topic GNOME 3.2 Progress
   5 14:36:37 <joanie> So I think it would be good to have a periodic "check in" on where we are with respect to the items on https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo
   6 14:36:54 <joanie> Starting with https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo/Issues
   7 14:37:06 <joanie> The first is Accerciser. So jhernandez|eee and/or bnitz?
   8 14:37:15 <joanie> Introspection and GSettings progress?
   9 14:37:21 <jhernandez|eee> ok
  10 14:37:36 <joanie> jhernandez|eee: btw
  11 14:37:44 <joanie> if you could preface key things with '#info'
  12 14:37:52 <joanie> they'll get automatically logged in the minutes
  13 14:38:20 <jhernandez|eee> #info about accerciser's introspection work, I had no time enough for continue with the migration, but, is in progress
  14 14:39:12 <joanie> You have an estimated time for completion?
  15 14:39:19 <jhernandez|eee> #info about gsettings migration, I had a first gschema
  16 14:40:08 <bnitz> hi
  17 14:40:32 <jhernandez|eee> about last meeting, we discussed about essential plugins, and we decided to get park some of these plugins
  18 14:40:44 * joanie nods
  19 14:41:22 <jhernandez|eee> so, this decission will speed up a first 'usable' version, I think that it could be in 2-3 weeks
  20 14:42:11 <jhernandez|eee> #info first accerciser's 'usable' version could be in 2-3 weeks
  21 14:42:19 <joanie> :-)
  22 14:42:22 <joanie> awesome
  23 14:42:23 <jhernandez|eee> ;)
  24 14:42:41 <joanie> Thanks so much for doing this work!
  25 14:42:41 <alibezz> I'm scheduled to help with accerciser documentation
  26 14:42:44 <alibezz> within a month
  27 14:42:47 <alibezz> :)
  28 14:42:57 <aleiva> good news
  29 14:42:59 <joanie> #info Aline is going to be working on the Accerciser documentation
  30 14:43:01 <joanie> :-)
  31 14:43:11 * bnitz echos joanies thanks!
  32 14:43:27 <alibezz> it's part of my internship and something I intend to do since april :)
  33 14:43:34 <joanie> bnitz: Yeah. It's truly wonderful to see how the team is growing
  34 14:43:58 <joanie> alibezz: We're looking forward to it. And welcome onboard. :-)
  35 14:44:17 <joanie> other Accerciser comments?
  36 14:44:51 <joanie> Assuming not....
  37 14:44:59 <joanie> Joseph (clown) is not here
  38 14:45:12 <joanie> so... Orca and it's unfortunate-looking GUI
  39 14:45:22 <joanie> aleiva: Any updates from José?
  40 14:45:27 <aleiva> yes
  41 14:46:44 <aleiva> #info Jose an UX designer from my company (emergya) is working in a new redesign of Orca interface
  42 14:47:12 <aleiva> hes making good progress and show us a mockup today
  43 14:47:32 <joanie> aleiva: Do I get to see the mockup? :-P
  44 14:48:19 <aleiva> #info We're thinking in use our new d-bus based config system in the new UI
  45 14:48:29 <aleiva> joanie: sure
  46 14:48:41 <aleiva> hes making last changes
  47 14:49:10 <aleiva> tomorrow or next week he will provide first version
  48 14:49:49 <aleiva> end
  49 14:50:18 <joanie> Thanks!
  50 14:50:35 <joanie> And API is not present to talk abuot gnome-shell
  51 14:50:47 <joanie> But I am subscribed to some of the relevant bugs
  52 14:51:29 <joanie> #info Piñeiro has been making progress on solving the remaining gnome-shell accessibility bugs, Dan has been reviewing Piñeiro's patches, and some have been committed
  53 14:51:32 <joanie> yay!
  54 14:52:17 * joanie looks at the nice to haves
  55 14:52:48 <joanie> So Eitan is not here re Caribou
  56 14:53:08 <joanie> #info Leon from Oracle is working on the Java ATK Wrapper bugs
  57 14:53:09 <joanie> (yay)
  58 14:53:25 <aleiva> whois Leon
  59 14:53:27 <joanie> Joseph is not here for gnome-shell mag
  60 14:53:42 <joanie> Leon is Ke Wang's replacement at Oracle
  61 14:53:53 <aleiva> ok
  62 14:54:05 <aleiva> good news too
  63 14:54:09 <joanie> Ke now works for Symantic and while he hopes to keep working and maintaining JAW, he really doesn't seem to have the time
  64 14:54:19 <joanie> So on the Orca nice to haves
  65 14:54:36 <joanie> #info The Orca team is still waiting for gnome-shell mag to have caret and focus tracking
  66 14:54:46 <joanie> #info Joanie is about to resume working on the WebKitGtk support
  67 14:55:06 <joanie> That looks like all we know today on 3.2 stuff
  68 14:55:09 <joanie> other comments/questions?
  69 14:56:23 <joanie> going once....
  70 14:56:31 <joanie> going twice....
  71 14:56:58 <joanie> #topic Should all 'core' a11y modules have a minimum of two maintainers?
  72 14:57:06 <joanie> This came up the other day
  73 14:57:33 <joanie> Periodically someone from, say, the release team shows up and asks for a tarball
  74 14:57:46 <joanie> or some 'immediate'/'urgent' thing needs doing
  75 14:58:38 <aleiva> well it is somthing good but do we have enough people ?
  76 14:58:42 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks that in order to avoid issues of 'bus factor' and to provide timely responses to members of the release team, etc. All official/core GNOME a11y team apps should have two maintainers
  77 14:58:57 <joanie> aleiva: Right now we do not have a crazy number of modules in this category
  78 14:58:59 <joanie> the main one is Orca
  79 14:59:06 <joanie> and Orca has two active maintainers ;-)
  80 14:59:12 <joanie> Accerciser however does not
  81 14:59:15 <joanie> ATK does not
  82 14:59:18 <joanie> Caribou does not
  83 14:59:32 <joanie> so... bnitz how would you feel about a co-maintainer?
  84 15:01:35 <joanie> bnitz: you there?
  85 15:01:56 <joanie> In the meantime, regarding ATK, Piñeiro has volunteered to be co-maintainer
  86 15:02:04 <joanie> so the question for the team is:
  87 15:02:38 <joanie> Do we all agree (or does anyone disagree) that we really should have a policy of a minimum of two maintainers for every *core*/*official* gnome a11y module?
  88 15:02:52 * alibezz nods in agreement
  89 15:03:20 * jhernandez|eee nods
  90 15:03:48 * joanie wonders if bnitz is nodding too
  91 15:04:03 <joanie> Are there any disagreements?
  92 15:04:08 <aleiva> +1
  93 15:04:54 <joanie> #info Joanie Aline Javi and Ale agree that we should have a policy of a minimum of two maintainers for every *core*/*official* gnome a11y module
  94 15:05:14 <joanie> jhernandez|eee: Pending bnitz's feedback, would you be willing to volunteer as the co-maintainer for Accerciser?
  95 15:05:29 <jhernandez|eee> of course
  96 15:05:47 <joanie> thanks Javi!
  97 15:05:59 <jhernandez|eee> :]
  98 15:06:12 <alibezz> and what about Caribou and ATK?
  99 15:06:13 <joanie> #info pending Brian's feedback/reaction, Javi is willing to be the Accerciser co-maintainer
 100 15:06:29 <joanie> #action Joanie will ping Brian about Javi as a co-maintainer
 101 15:06:43 <joanie> #action Joanie will ping Li about having Piñeiro as a co-maintainer
 102 15:06:59 <joanie> #action Joanie will ping Eitan to see about finding a co-maintainer for Caribou
 103 15:07:08 <joanie> Other questions/issues/modules I am forgetting?
 104 15:07:10 <bnitz> joanie:Sorry.
 105 15:07:23 <joanie> bnitz: There you are. :-)
 106 15:07:28 <alibezz> ATK?
 107 15:07:32 <jhernandez|eee> joanie: gnome-voice-control ?
 108 15:07:42 <joanie> alibezz: Sorry. Li == ATK
 109 15:07:47 <alibezz> aaaa ok
 110 15:07:51 <joanie> jhernandez|eee: good question
 111 15:08:15 <jhernandez|eee> dasher
 112 15:08:16 <jhernandez|eee> ?
 113 15:08:21 <bnitz> joanie:I would love to have a co maintainer.
 114 15:08:26 <joanie> bnitz: Yay!
 115 15:08:39 <jhernandez|eee> there are many modules without love
 116 15:08:41 <joanie> #info Brian is happy to have a co-maintainer
 117 15:08:51 <joanie> jhernandez|eee: Let's discuss that next
 118 15:08:53 <bnitz> joanie:I had discussed handing over some or all of accerciser's maintenance to jhernandez|EEE
 119 15:08:54 <aleiva> we agree that we need a list of unmaintained and abandonware modules
 120 15:09:09 <bnitz> Who is Javi?
 121 15:09:09 <joanie> aleiva: let's discuss that next
 122 15:09:09 <aleiva> can we add as a action
 123 15:09:15 <jhernandez|eee> here
 124 15:09:18 <joanie> bnitz: Javi == jhernandez|eee
 125 15:09:19 <joanie> sorry
 126 15:09:34 <joanie> If we don't use real names the meetbot output can be confusing
 127 15:09:45 <joanie> Especially for names like 'clown' :-)
 128 15:09:48 <bnitz> Oh good, I don't have to worry about too many maintainers after going from 0 to 1/2 of a maintainer ;-)
 129 15:09:56 <joanie> heh
 130 15:10:04 <aleiva> clown is very accurated to Joseph ;)
 131 15:10:20 <joanie> I think jhernandez|eee will be an awesome co-maintainer for your module bnitz
 132 15:10:29 <aleiva> sure thing
 133 15:10:31 <jhernandez|eee> joanie: thanks!
 134 15:10:43 * bnitz agrees.  Would be nice to have someone who knows his way around the code and git.
 135 15:10:55 <bnitz> s/Would/Will
 136 15:11:16 <joanie> So, noting that Dasher and abandonware are about to be discussed, anything else for this topic?
 137 15:11:43 * jhernandez|eee nods bnitz
 138 15:11:50 <jhernandez|eee> :]
 139 15:12:16 <joanie> #topic Other AT Modules
 140 15:12:49 <joanie> #info Joanie and Piñeiro have been contacting the module maintainers for things which used to be part of GNOME a11y but were dropped
 141 15:13:23 <joanie> #info These dropped modules include Dasher and gnome-voice-control, along with MouseTrap/OpenGazer and the alternative Vedics
 142 15:13:59 <joanie> #info Patrick Welche has been doing quite a bit of work on Dasher and Piñeiro and Joanie will seek its reinstatement as an official GNOME app
 143 15:14:15 <joanie> #info gnome-voice-control has no interest in moving forward
 144 15:14:20 * joanie looks for link, one second
 145 15:15:02 <joanie> https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/festlang-gvc/2011-May/000079.html
 146 15:15:05 <joanie> Amusing read
 147 15:15:06 <joanie> anyhoo
 148 15:15:36 <joanie> #info Piñeiro has contacted the developer which the Consorcio Fernando de los Ríos contracted with to improve g-v-c
 149 15:16:04 <aleiva> indisys?
 150 15:16:23 <joanie> #info Piñeiro has contacted the Vedics developer to see what that team's plans are for converting away from CSPI. (They are migrating to python and pyatspi2)
 151 15:16:26 <joanie> aleiva: correct
 152 15:16:42 <aleiva> they are located here in seville
 153 15:16:49 <joanie> cool
 154 15:17:09 <joanie> so... other questions about Dasher, gnome-voice-control, etc?
 155 15:17:16 <aleiva> if that can speed up things
 156 15:17:27 <joanie> Basically we need to strengthen our AT offerings
 157 15:17:36 <joanie> find developers for abandonware
 158 15:17:37 <joanie> etc.
 159 15:18:01 <joanie> And Piñeiro and I have started the ball rolling, but welcome further input and support in this regard
 160 15:18:01 <aleiva> is it going to be published that list somewhere?
 161 15:18:10 <joanie> aleiva: which list?
 162 15:18:29 <aleiva> this list of abandonware and status
 163 15:18:30 <joanie> You mean this: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo/RelatedProjects
 164 15:18:50 <joanie> #info Joanie also pinged Bryen re VizAudio but has not heard back from him
 165 15:19:41 <aleiva> well something like that but gvc is not included
 166 15:19:44 <joanie> #info We are waiting to hear back from the OpenGazer team. We heard back from Flavio about MouseTrap but it's not clear how much involvement/contribution time he can make at the moment, though he is interested.
 167 15:19:57 <joanie> aleiva: Because it is abandonware ;-)
 168 15:20:14 <joanie> API figured we should wait until we have more info on these fronts
 169 15:20:21 <joanie> That is why it's not on the agenda
 170 15:20:32 <aleiva> ok
 171 15:20:33 <joanie> But then everyone raised questions about the modules
 172 15:20:42 <joanie> So I'm sharing with everyone where things are
 173 15:20:51 <joanie> namely: We're on it, but we don't have all the answers yet
 174 15:20:53 <aleiva> thanks
 175 15:21:06 <joanie> Other questions?
 176 15:21:45 <aleiva> not from my side
 177 15:22:18 <joanie> Okay
 178 15:22:26 <joanie> #topic Miscellaneous Time
 179 15:22:31 * joanie gives up the floor
 180 15:22:41 <alibezz> not from my side either
 181 15:24:57 * joanie wonders if API's seriousness means people fear miscellaneous time ;-)
 182 15:25:56 <joanie> If no one has anything else to say....
 183 15:26:41 <joanie> #endmeeting
 184 15:26:41  <tota11y> Meeting ended Thu May 26 15:26:41 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
 185 15:26:41  <tota11y> Minutes:        a11y-meeting/2011/a11y-meeting.2011-05-26-14.35.html
 186 15:26:41  <tota11y> Minutes (text): a11y-meeting/2011/a11y-meeting.2011-05-26-14.35.txt
 187 15:26:41  <tota11y> Log:            a11y-meeting/2011/a11y-meeting.2011-05-26-14.35.log.html
 188 15:26:41  *** test is now known as li
 189 15:26:50  <joanie> Argh test is li?
 190 15:26:55  <joanie> Li hey
 191 15:26:59  <li> oh, the meeting just end?
 192 15:27:02  <li> hi!
 193 15:27:09  <joanie> I'm afraid so but....
 194 15:27:12  <li> sorry I am late, I just got home
 195 15:27:15  <joanie> Since you are here
 196 15:27:19  <joanie> you were discussed
 197 15:27:21  <li> anything related to me?
 198 15:27:24  <joanie> Or rather your module was discussed
 199 15:27:25  <joanie> Yeah
 200 15:27:27  *** bnitz has left #a11y-meeting
 201 15:27:43  <li> what's it?
 202 15:27:59  <joanie> We talked about whether or not we should have a team "policy" for lack of a better word that all "core"/"official" gnome modules have two maintainers
 203 15:28:02  <joanie> including ATK
 204 15:28:09  <joanie> (and accerciser and orca and....)
 205 15:28:14  <joanie> And the consensus was yes
 206 15:28:17  <li> sure
 207 15:28:21  <li> I am OK with that
 208 15:28:24  <joanie> Piñeiro volunteered to be the one for ATK
 209 15:28:39  <joanie> Are you okay with him being your co-maintainer?
 210 15:28:51  <li> yes, thanks for that
 211 15:28:56  <joanie> Awesome
 212 15:29:01  * joanie has one less action item!
 213 15:29:05  <li> that day I said I need time is because
 214 15:30:06  <li> we may have one more people to take care of the accessibility modules in our team, that means possible another maintainer
 215 15:30:19  <joanie> Understood
 216 15:30:24  <li> but I am OK to add API anyway
 217 15:30:36  <joanie> By the same token, it's nice to have the maintainers from multiple sources
 218 15:30:44  <aleiva> yup
 219 15:30:45  <li> I think it's OK to add both people
 220 15:30:48  <li> yes
 221 15:30:51  <joanie> in other words, if Oracle for some reason decided to cut your team's a11y time down
 222 15:31:08  <joanie> having two maintainers who have limited time is similar to having one
 223 15:31:27  <joanie> If Oracle wants to add even more team time to ATK, we will not object
 224 15:32:19  <joanie> Li can you update the doap and MAINTAINERS files?
 225 15:32:22  <aleiva> thanks guys
 226 15:32:26  <joanie> to include Piñeiro
 227 15:32:28  <joanie> ?
 228 15:32:30  *** aleiva has left #a11y-meeting
 229 15:32:33  <joanie> Or should he do that?
 230 15:32:59  <li> sure
 231 15:33:09  <joanie> awesome thanks!
 232 15:33:46  <li> what about other modules? I think we have one active maintainer for at-spi2 now?
 233 15:33:59  <joanie> Orca is (already) me and Ale
 234 15:34:25  <joanie> Accerciser is Brian with Javi Hernandez joining him
 235 15:34:40  <joanie> ATK is you (and anyone else from Oracle) and Piñeiro
 236 15:34:53  <joanie> Caribou is on my to-do list (need to ping Eitan)
 237 15:35:03  <joanie> AT-SPI2 is one I forgot. Grrr.
 238 15:35:23  <li> any people volunteered?
 239 15:35:26  <joanie> li: Would you like to be the co-maintainer?
 240 15:35:29  <joanie> Nope
 241 15:35:35  <li> yes
 242 15:35:38  <joanie> Not here at the meeting anyway
 243 15:35:40  <joanie> Yay!
 244 15:35:59  <alibezz> I barely have any experience and this is why I didn't volunteered
 245 15:36:05  <joanie> No worries
 246 15:36:09  <alibezz> but if you need help and think I can help
 247 15:36:11  <alibezz> count on me
 248 15:36:13  <joanie> You really do need experience to do this
 249 15:36:16  <joanie> thanks alibezz!
 250 15:36:18  <joanie> We will
 251 15:36:24  <joanie> (We are, e.g. with the documentation)
 252 15:36:25  <alibezz> that's what I think :D
 253 15:36:26  <joanie> :-)
 254 15:36:39  <joanie> So I *think* that just leaves Caribou
 255 15:37:13  <joanie> So.... Anything else?
 256 15:37:31  <li> nothing from me
 257 15:37:38  <joanie> If not, I will stitch together the official meeting log (recorded by the bot) with the apres-meeting log. :-)
 258 15:38:08  <joanie> Thanks for joining Li. And for volunteering re AT-SPI2. And for taking on the co-maintainer for ATK.
 259 15:38:26  * joanie waves goodbye and wanders back to #a11y