14:35:41 <joanie> #startmeeting
14:35:41 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu May 26 14:35:41 2011 UTC.  The chair is joanie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:35:41 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:35:58 <joanie> #topic GNOME 3.2 Progress
14:36:37 <joanie> So I think it would be good to have a periodic "check in" on where we are with respect to the items on https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo
14:36:54 <joanie> Starting with https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo/Issues
14:37:06 <joanie> The first is Accerciser. So jhernandez|eee and/or bnitz?
14:37:15 <joanie> Introspection and GSettings progress?
14:37:21 <jhernandez|eee> ok
14:37:36 <joanie> jhernandez|eee: btw
14:37:44 <joanie> if you could preface key things with '#info'
14:37:52 <joanie> they'll get automatically logged in the minutes
14:38:20 <jhernandez|eee> #info about accerciser's introspection work, I had no time enough for continue with the migration, but, is in progress
14:39:12 <joanie> You have an estimated time for completion?
14:39:19 <jhernandez|eee> #info about gsettings migration, I had a first gschema
14:40:08 <bnitz> hi
14:40:32 <jhernandez|eee> about last meeting, we discussed about essential plugins, and we decided to get park some of these plugins
14:40:44 * joanie nods
14:41:22 <jhernandez|eee> so, this decission will speed up a first 'usable' version, I think that it could be in 2-3 weeks
14:42:11 <jhernandez|eee> #info first accerciser's 'usable' version could be in 2-3 weeks
14:42:19 <joanie> :-)
14:42:22 <joanie> awesome
14:42:23 <jhernandez|eee> ;)
14:42:41 <joanie> Thanks so much for doing this work!
14:42:41 <alibezz> I'm scheduled to help with accerciser documentation
14:42:44 <alibezz> within a month
14:42:47 <alibezz> :)
14:42:57 <aleiva> good news
14:42:59 <joanie> #info Aline is going to be working on the Accerciser documentation
14:43:01 <joanie> :-)
14:43:11 * bnitz echos joanies thanks!
14:43:27 <alibezz> it's part of my internship and something I intend to do since april :)
14:43:34 <joanie> bnitz: Yeah. It's truly wonderful to see how the team is growing
14:43:58 <joanie> alibezz: We're looking forward to it. And welcome onboard. :-)
14:44:17 <joanie> other Accerciser comments?
14:44:51 <joanie> Assuming not....
14:44:59 <joanie> Joseph (clown) is not here
14:45:12 <joanie> so... Orca and it's unfortunate-looking GUI
14:45:22 <joanie> aleiva: Any updates from José?
14:45:27 <aleiva> yes
14:46:44 <aleiva> #info Jose an UX designer from my company (emergya) is working in a new redesign of Orca interface
14:47:12 <aleiva> hes making good progress and show us a mockup today
14:47:32 <joanie> aleiva: Do I get to see the mockup? :-P
14:48:19 <aleiva> #info We're thinking in use our new d-bus based config system in the new UI
14:48:29 <aleiva> joanie: sure
14:48:41 <aleiva> hes making last changes
14:49:10 <aleiva> tomorrow or next week he will provide first version
14:49:49 <aleiva> end
14:50:18 <joanie> Thanks!
14:50:35 <joanie> And API is not present to talk abuot gnome-shell
14:50:47 <joanie> But I am subscribed to some of the relevant bugs
14:51:29 <joanie> #info Piñeiro has been making progress on solving the remaining gnome-shell accessibility bugs, Dan has been reviewing Piñeiro's patches, and some have been committed
14:51:32 <joanie> yay!
14:52:17 * joanie looks at the nice to haves
14:52:48 <joanie> So Eitan is not here re Caribou
14:53:08 <joanie> #info Leon from Oracle is working on the Java ATK Wrapper bugs
14:53:09 <joanie> (yay)
14:53:25 <aleiva> whois Leon
14:53:27 <joanie> Joseph is not here for gnome-shell mag
14:53:42 <joanie> Leon is Ke Wang's replacement at Oracle
14:53:53 <aleiva> ok
14:54:05 <aleiva> good news too
14:54:09 <joanie> Ke now works for Symantic and while he hopes to keep working and maintaining JAW, he really doesn't seem to have the time
14:54:19 <joanie> So on the Orca nice to haves
14:54:36 <joanie> #info The Orca team is still waiting for gnome-shell mag to have caret and focus tracking
14:54:46 <joanie> #info Joanie is about to resume working on the WebKitGtk support
14:55:06 <joanie> That looks like all we know today on 3.2 stuff
14:55:09 <joanie> other comments/questions?
14:56:23 <joanie> going once....
14:56:31 <joanie> going twice....
14:56:58 <joanie> #topic Should all 'core' a11y modules have a minimum of two maintainers?
14:57:06 <joanie> This came up the other day
14:57:33 <joanie> Periodically someone from, say, the release team shows up and asks for a tarball
14:57:46 <joanie> or some 'immediate'/'urgent' thing needs doing
14:58:38 <aleiva> well it is somthing good but do we have enough people ?
14:58:42 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks that in order to avoid issues of 'bus factor' and to provide timely responses to members of the release team, etc. All official/core GNOME a11y team apps should have two maintainers
14:58:57 <joanie> aleiva: Right now we do not have a crazy number of modules in this category
14:58:59 <joanie> the main one is Orca
14:59:06 <joanie> and Orca has two active maintainers ;-)
14:59:12 <joanie> Accerciser however does not
14:59:15 <joanie> ATK does not
14:59:18 <joanie> Caribou does not
14:59:32 <joanie> so... bnitz how would you feel about a co-maintainer?
15:01:35 <joanie> bnitz: you there?
15:01:56 <joanie> In the meantime, regarding ATK, Piñeiro has volunteered to be co-maintainer
15:02:04 <joanie> so the question for the team is:
15:02:38 <joanie> Do we all agree (or does anyone disagree) that we really should have a policy of a minimum of two maintainers for every *core*/*official* gnome a11y module?
15:02:52 * alibezz nods in agreement
15:03:20 * jhernandez|eee nods
15:03:48 * joanie wonders if bnitz is nodding too
15:04:03 <joanie> Are there any disagreements?
15:04:08 <aleiva> +1
15:04:54 <joanie> #info Joanie Aline Javi and Ale agree that we should have a policy of a minimum of two maintainers for every *core*/*official* gnome a11y module
15:05:14 <joanie> jhernandez|eee: Pending bnitz's feedback, would you be willing to volunteer as the co-maintainer for Accerciser?
15:05:29 <jhernandez|eee> of course
15:05:47 <joanie> thanks Javi!
15:05:59 <jhernandez|eee> :]
15:06:12 <alibezz> and what about Caribou and ATK?
15:06:13 <joanie> #info pending Brian's feedback/reaction, Javi is willing to be the Accerciser co-maintainer
15:06:29 <joanie> #action Joanie will ping Brian about Javi as a co-maintainer
15:06:43 <joanie> #action Joanie will ping Li about having Piñeiro as a co-maintainer
15:06:59 <joanie> #action Joanie will ping Eitan to see about finding a co-maintainer for Caribou
15:07:08 <joanie> Other questions/issues/modules I am forgetting?
15:07:10 <bnitz> joanie:Sorry.
15:07:23 <joanie> bnitz: There you are. :-)
15:07:28 <alibezz> ATK?
15:07:32 <jhernandez|eee> joanie: gnome-voice-control ?
15:07:42 <joanie> alibezz: Sorry. Li == ATK
15:07:47 <alibezz> aaaa ok
15:07:51 <joanie> jhernandez|eee: good question
15:08:15 <jhernandez|eee> dasher
15:08:16 <jhernandez|eee> ?
15:08:21 <bnitz> joanie:I would love to have a co maintainer.
15:08:26 <joanie> bnitz: Yay!
15:08:39 <jhernandez|eee> there are many modules without love
15:08:41 <joanie> #info Brian is happy to have a co-maintainer
15:08:51 <joanie> jhernandez|eee: Let's discuss that next
15:08:53 <bnitz> joanie:I had discussed handing over some or all of accerciser's maintenance to jhernandez|EEE
15:08:54 <aleiva> we agree that we need a list of unmaintained and abandonware modules
15:09:09 <bnitz> Who is Javi?
15:09:09 <joanie> aleiva: let's discuss that next
15:09:09 <aleiva> can we add as a action
15:09:15 <jhernandez|eee> here
15:09:18 <joanie> bnitz: Javi == jhernandez|eee
15:09:19 <joanie> sorry
15:09:34 <joanie> If we don't use real names the meetbot output can be confusing
15:09:45 <joanie> Especially for names like 'clown' :-)
15:09:48 <bnitz> Oh good, I don't have to worry about too many maintainers after going from 0 to 1/2 of a maintainer ;-)
15:09:56 <joanie> heh
15:10:04 <aleiva> clown is very accurated to Joseph ;)
15:10:20 <joanie> I think jhernandez|eee will be an awesome co-maintainer for your module bnitz
15:10:29 <aleiva> sure thing
15:10:31 <jhernandez|eee> joanie: thanks!
15:10:43 * bnitz agrees.  Would be nice to have someone who knows his way around the code and git.
15:10:55 <bnitz> s/Would/Will
15:11:16 <joanie> So, noting that Dasher and abandonware are about to be discussed, anything else for this topic?
15:11:43 * jhernandez|eee nods bnitz
15:11:50 <jhernandez|eee> :]
15:12:16 <joanie> #topic Other AT Modules
15:12:49 <joanie> #info Joanie and Piñeiro have been contacting the module maintainers for things which used to be part of GNOME a11y but were dropped
15:13:23 <joanie> #info These dropped modules include Dasher and gnome-voice-control, along with MouseTrap/OpenGazer and the alternative Vedics
15:13:59 <joanie> #info Patrick Welche has been doing quite a bit of work on Dasher and Piñeiro and Joanie will seek its reinstatement as an official GNOME app
15:14:15 <joanie> #info gnome-voice-control has no interest in moving forward
15:14:20 * joanie looks for link, one second
15:15:02 <joanie> https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/festlang-gvc/2011-May/000079.html
15:15:05 <joanie> Amusing read
15:15:06 <joanie> anyhoo
15:15:36 <joanie> #info Piñeiro has contacted the developer which the Consorcio Fernando de los Ríos contracted with to improve g-v-c
15:16:04 <aleiva> indisys?
15:16:23 <joanie> #info Piñeiro has contacted the Vedics developer to see what that team's plans are for converting away from CSPI. (They are migrating to python and pyatspi2)
15:16:26 <joanie> aleiva: correct
15:16:42 <aleiva> they are located here in seville
15:16:49 <joanie> cool
15:17:09 <joanie> so... other questions about Dasher, gnome-voice-control, etc?
15:17:16 <aleiva> if that can speed up things
15:17:27 <joanie> Basically we need to strengthen our AT offerings
15:17:36 <joanie> find developers for abandonware
15:17:37 <joanie> etc.
15:18:01 <joanie> And Piñeiro and I have started the ball rolling, but welcome further input and support in this regard
15:18:01 <aleiva> is it going to be published that list somewhere?
15:18:10 <joanie> aleiva: which list?
15:18:29 <aleiva> this list of abandonware and status
15:18:30 <joanie> You mean this: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo/RelatedProjects
15:18:50 <joanie> #info Joanie also pinged Bryen re VizAudio but has not heard back from him
15:19:41 <aleiva> well something like that but gvc is not included
15:19:44 <joanie> #info We are waiting to hear back from the OpenGazer team. We heard back from Flavio about MouseTrap but it's not clear how much involvement/contribution time he can make at the moment, though he is interested.
15:19:57 <joanie> aleiva: Because it is abandonware ;-)
15:20:14 <joanie> API figured we should wait until we have more info on these fronts
15:20:21 <joanie> That is why it's not on the agenda
15:20:32 <aleiva> ok
15:20:33 <joanie> But then everyone raised questions about the modules
15:20:42 <joanie> So I'm sharing with everyone where things are
15:20:51 <joanie> namely: We're on it, but we don't have all the answers yet
15:20:53 <aleiva> thanks
15:21:06 <joanie> Other questions?
15:21:45 <aleiva> not from my side
15:22:18 <joanie> Okay
15:22:26 <joanie> #topic Miscellaneous Time
15:22:31 * joanie gives up the floor
15:22:41 <alibezz> not from my side either
15:24:57 * joanie wonders if API's seriousness means people fear miscellaneous time ;-)
15:25:56 <joanie> If no one has anything else to say....
15:26:41 <joanie> #endmeeting
15:26:41  <tota11y> Meeting ended Thu May 26 15:26:41 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:26:41  <tota11y> Minutes:        a11y-meeting/2011/a11y-meeting.2011-05-26-14.35.html
15:26:41  <tota11y> Minutes (text): a11y-meeting/2011/a11y-meeting.2011-05-26-14.35.txt
15:26:41  <tota11y> Log:            a11y-meeting/2011/a11y-meeting.2011-05-26-14.35.log.html
15:26:41  *** test is now known as li
15:26:50  <joanie> Argh test is li?
15:26:55  <joanie> Li hey
15:26:59  <li> oh, the meeting just end?
15:27:02  <li> hi!
15:27:09  <joanie> I'm afraid so but....
15:27:12  <li> sorry I am late, I just got home
15:27:15  <joanie> Since you are here
15:27:19  <joanie> you were discussed
15:27:21  <li> anything related to me?
15:27:24  <joanie> Or rather your module was discussed
15:27:25  <joanie> Yeah
15:27:27  *** bnitz has left #a11y-meeting
15:27:43  <li> what's it?
15:27:59  <joanie> We talked about whether or not we should have a team "policy" for lack of a better word that all "core"/"official" gnome modules have two maintainers
15:28:02  <joanie> including ATK
15:28:09  <joanie> (and accerciser and orca and....)
15:28:14  <joanie> And the consensus was yes
15:28:17  <li> sure
15:28:21  <li> I am OK with that
15:28:24  <joanie> Piñeiro volunteered to be the one for ATK
15:28:39  <joanie> Are you okay with him being your co-maintainer?
15:28:51  <li> yes, thanks for that
15:28:56  <joanie> Awesome
15:29:01  * joanie has one less action item!
15:29:05  <li> that day I said I need time is because
15:30:06  <li> we may have one more people to take care of the accessibility modules in our team, that means possible another maintainer
15:30:19  <joanie> Understood
15:30:24  <li> but I am OK to add API anyway
15:30:36  <joanie> By the same token, it's nice to have the maintainers from multiple sources
15:30:44  <aleiva> yup
15:30:45  <li> I think it's OK to add both people
15:30:48  <li> yes
15:30:51  <joanie> in other words, if Oracle for some reason decided to cut your team's a11y time down
15:31:08  <joanie> having two maintainers who have limited time is similar to having one
15:31:27  <joanie> If Oracle wants to add even more team time to ATK, we will not object
15:32:19  <joanie> Li can you update the doap and MAINTAINERS files?
15:32:22  <aleiva> thanks guys
15:32:26  <joanie> to include Piñeiro
15:32:28  <joanie> ?
15:32:30  *** aleiva has left #a11y-meeting
15:32:33  <joanie> Or should he do that?
15:32:59  <li> sure
15:33:09  <joanie> awesome thanks!
15:33:46  <li> what about other modules? I think we have one active maintainer for at-spi2 now?
15:33:59  <joanie> Orca is (already) me and Ale
15:34:25  <joanie> Accerciser is Brian with Javi Hernandez joining him
15:34:40  <joanie> ATK is you (and anyone else from Oracle) and Piñeiro
15:34:53  <joanie> Caribou is on my to-do list (need to ping Eitan)
15:35:03  <joanie> AT-SPI2 is one I forgot. Grrr.
15:35:23  <li> any people volunteered?
15:35:26  <joanie> li: Would you like to be the co-maintainer?
15:35:29  <joanie> Nope
15:35:35  <li> yes
15:35:38  <joanie> Not here at the meeting anyway
15:35:40  <joanie> Yay!
15:35:59  <alibezz> I barely have any experience and this is why I didn't volunteered
15:36:05  <joanie> No worries
15:36:09  <alibezz> but if you need help and think I can help
15:36:11  <alibezz> count on me
15:36:13  <joanie> You really do need experience to do this
15:36:16  <joanie> thanks alibezz!
15:36:18  <joanie> We will
15:36:24  <joanie> (We are, e.g. with the documentation)
15:36:25  <alibezz> that's what I think :D
15:36:26  <joanie> :-)
15:36:39  <joanie> So I *think* that just leaves Caribou
15:37:13  <joanie> So.... Anything else?
15:37:31  <li> nothing from me
15:37:38  <joanie> If not, I will stitch together the official meeting log (recorded by the bot) with the apres-meeting log. :-)
15:38:08  <joanie> Thanks for joining Li. And for volunteering re AT-SPI2. And for taking on the co-maintainer for ATK.
15:38:26  * joanie waves goodbye and wanders back to #a11y