1 10:35:10< API> so, lets start: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
   2 10:35:30< API> 1. Some output of the last release team meeting
   3 10:35:48< API> so
   4 10:35:52< API> as some of you already know
   5 10:36:01< API> now Im part of the release team
   6 10:36:05< API> and last sunday
   7 10:36:06 >>> joanie cheers
   8 10:36:12< mgorse> Oh, nice. Didn't know that
   9 10:36:15 >>> clown cheers loudly
  10 10:36:16< jhernandez> API: congrats!
  11 10:36:26< API> was first release team after this gnome 3 thing
  12 10:36:28< API> thanks
  13 10:36:30< API> so
  14 10:36:43< API> just some extracts of that meeting related to a11y
  15 10:36:56 >>> API searching
  16 10:37:28< API>      Apr 17 20:24:31 <kmaraas>    particularly good to have someone from the a11y team involved
  17 10:37:28< API>      Apr 17 20:24:51 <kmaraas>    particularly since we're supposed to get working a11y for 3.2 
  18 10:37:43< API> and as some people already mentioned on the planet
  19 10:37:49< API> that this gnome 3.0 is good
  20 10:38:06< API> but lacks a lot of cleaning
  21 10:38:25< joanie> (cleaning?)
  22 10:38:27< API> they make a metaphor using furniture on a flat
  23 10:38:41< API> I guess that a11y is also a couch that it requires to be properly placed
  24 10:38:57< API> and I hope that that stament means that they will listening us
  25 10:39:05< joanie> or sitting on us
  26 10:39:12< API> the other thing is something we already mentioned
  27 10:39:16< API> there are a features page
  28 10:39:21< API> with a accessibility page
  29 10:39:28< API> and I mentioned that we are working on that
  30 10:39:34< API> it is our "gnome 3.2" page
  31 10:39:35< API> sooo
  32 10:39:48< API> as this is point 2 is a good way to go to next point
  33 10:39:59< API> any question or doubt before that?
  34 10:40:13< clown> a11y is not a couch, it's the elephant in the room.
  35 10:40:22< joanie> +1
  36 10:40:56< clown> API, you are talking about this page:  https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo/Issues ?
  37 10:41:04< API> clown, yep
  38 10:41:07< API> in summary
  39 10:41:13< API> the main feature
  40 10:41:17< API> for 3.2 
  41 10:41:21< API> related with accessibility
  42 10:41:32< API> as I mentioned on the release team meeting
  43 10:41:35< API> is "get the things working"
  44 10:41:44< API> so
  45 10:41:55< API> solving that issues are the features that we want on 3.2
  46 10:42:01< API> unless someone has a better idea
  47 10:42:17< joanie> Does it have to be limited to those things?
  48 10:42:23< clown> and "the issues" are as documented on the 3.2 wiki page?
  49 10:42:33< API> joanie, no
  50 10:42:35< joanie> clown: We need to add to them
  51 10:42:35< API> as I said
  52 10:42:41< API> the *main* feature
  53 10:42:46< API> is get things solved
  54 10:42:48< clown> joanie:  understood.
  55 10:42:51< API> we can add things on that page
  56 10:42:59< API> but please be realistic
  57 10:43:10< API> things that you think that will be ready for 2.2
  58 10:43:10< clown> we're not going to solve world peace?
  59 10:43:11< API> sorry
  60 10:43:12< API> 3.2
  61 10:43:20< joanie> API +1 to realistic. That's why I have the must have page and the nice to haves page
  62 10:43:31< clown> +1
  63 10:43:47< joanie> I personally intend to strive for both
  64 10:43:48< API> joanie, and this confirm that the current 3.2 feature page, accessibility section
  65 10:43:56< API> will be mostly a link to our accessibility planning pages
  66 10:44:11< clown> so, we need to discuss, at times, what is "necessary" vs. "nice-to-have".
  67 10:44:18< API> btw, I think that we already crossed the line
  68 10:44:19< joanie> all the more reason to keep those 3.2 planning pages current and clean too
  69 10:44:20< API> so 
  70 10:44:21< clown> what is the vehicle for that discussion?
  71 10:44:25< API> lets move to the next point:
  72 10:44:30< joanie> crossed the line?
  73 10:44:44< API> GNOME 3.x
  74 10:44:44< API>     Module updates and progress towards a more accessible 3.0.1
  75 10:44:44< API>     3.2 planning 
  76 10:44:54< API> I mean that we are mostly finished the release team point
  77 10:45:00< API> and talking about this
  78 10:45:01 >>> joanie nods
  79 10:45:53< joanie> Well, I'll start on the more accessible 3.0.1
  80 10:46:06< joanie> the last of the Orca oopses was fixed
  81 10:46:14< joanie> doesn't mean everything's perfect
  82 10:46:28< joanie> but Orca should (hopefully) more or less be working in gnome 3
  83 10:46:44< joanie> which means we can use it as one (or an additional) tool to look at other a11y issues
  84 10:46:48< joanie> e.g. in gnome-shell
  85 10:47:12 >>> joanie is done.
  86 10:47:31< API> joanie, as you mention gnome shell
  87 10:47:32 >>> joanie wonders where accerciser is
  88 10:47:40< API> I didn't get any update from dan winship
  89 10:47:49< API> about the patches on the bugzilla
  90 10:47:53< API> included on the testing distro
  91 10:47:53< joanie> ugh
  92 10:47:59< API> probably I should try to ping him
  93 10:48:09< joanie> would it be helpful if I pinged him
  94 10:48:17< API> not required, thanks
  95 10:48:39< joanie> jhernandez: any Accerciser updates?
  96 10:48:43< jhernandez> accerciser now has a new gschema but I'm working in its integration
  97 10:49:21< joanie> estimated time to completion?
  98 10:49:28< jhernandez> it's a problem because of our well-know problems with mixing gtk2 and gi
  99 10:49:29< joanie> i.e. we're looking at 3.0.2?
 100 10:50:11< jhernandez> well, 3.0.2 is ??
 101 10:50:16< joanie> not monday
 102 10:50:18< joanie> :-)
 103 10:50:34< jhernandez> ok, next
 104 10:50:36< jhernandez> probably
 105 10:50:50< joanie> https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointOne#Schedule
 106 10:51:03< joanie> end of may
 107 10:51:17< jhernandez> yes
 108 10:51:26< joanie> cool
 109 10:51:31< jhernandez> end of may is factible for me
 110 10:53:02< API> joanie, anything else about 3.0.1
 111 10:53:04< API> ?
 112 10:53:10< joanie> not from me. clown?
 113 10:53:28< clown> nothing here.  (wonders what it might be)
 114 10:53:43< joanie> no just asking about any possible updates
 115 10:53:47< API> so moving
 116 10:53:50< jhernandez> well, bug 554057
 117 10:53:52< API> 3.2 planning 
 118 10:53:54< API> ups sorry
 119 10:53:55 >>> joanie looks
 120 10:54:22< joanie> ugh, I meant to test that and forgot
 121 10:54:24< jhernandez> sorry API, my connection today is soooo sloooow
 122 10:54:44< API> no problem
 123 10:54:45< API> anyway
 124 10:54:49< mgorse> The patch is in 3.0.9.
 125 10:54:54< API> it seems that something is commited
 126 10:55:10< jhernandez> yes, so it's included
 127 10:55:24< API> any idea of why this bug is not closeD?
 128 10:55:33< joanie> so with any luck, "fallback mode" will be an option
 129 10:55:57< joanie> api probably a question for mclasen
 130 10:56:06< API> ok, I will add that question on the bu
 131 10:56:07< API> g
 132 10:57:47< joanie> I'll remove it from the 3.2 issues page
 133 10:58:14< API> done
 134 10:58:14< API> ok
 135 10:58:22< API> so anything else about 3.0.1?
 136 10:58:31< API> moving to 3.2 planning?
 137 10:58:51 >>> joanie nods
 138 10:59:07 >>> jhernandez too
 139 10:59:12< API> ok, so
 140 10:59:23< API> 2.2 3.2 planning 
 141 10:59:32< API> I guess that we need to start as the last meeting
 142 10:59:37< API> work in progress
 143 10:59:38< API> sorry, 
 144 10:59:45< API> joanie, ?
 145 10:59:57< joanie> I'm not sure I get the question
 146 11:00:05< joanie> or are you just giving me the floor so to speak?
 147 11:00:34 >>> jhernandez pushes joanie to the floor
 148 11:00:36< joanie> Assuming I have the floor....
 149 11:00:41< joanie> heh thanks jhernandez 
 150 11:00:49< jhernandez> :P
 151 11:00:58< joanie> So based on last week's meeting and the absence of additional feedback
 152 11:01:06< joanie> here is where I personally feel things stand
 153 11:01:13< API> joanie, yes you have the floor
 154 11:01:32< joanie> the 3.2 pages we're working on need to be worked on by all module maintainers and critical developers
 155 11:01:54< joanie> There's currently some Orca stuff, some accerciser stuff, and some gs-mag stuff
 156 11:02:18< joanie> there is a noticable absence of gnome-shell a11y issues on https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo/Issues however
 157 11:02:19< joanie> ;-)
 158 11:02:30< joanie> so.... API could you add items as appropriate to that page?
 159 11:02:33< joanie> please?
 160 11:02:49< API> ejem
 161 11:02:50< API> yes
 162 11:02:53< API> I can
 163 11:02:55< joanie> jhernandez: As you make progress on the Accerciser stuff, could you keep that stuff up to date
 164 11:02:58< joanie> please
 165 11:02:58< API> as I said before
 166 11:03:04< API> <API> sorry, 
 167 11:03:05< joanie> clown: ditto for you and gs-mag
 168 11:03:08 >>> jhernandez nods
 169 11:03:14< joanie> I'll do that for Orca
 170 11:03:18< joanie> As for JAW
 171 11:03:25< joanie> Li's not here, Ke's not here
 172 11:03:28 >>> clown nods.  trying to decide if the other issues are "necessary" or "nice to have".
 173 11:03:41< joanie> clown: In a minute let's discuss
 174 11:03:45< clown> sure.
 175 11:03:46< joanie> but for JAW
 176 11:03:59< joanie> seems Oracle gave us a new developer and forgot to tell us
 177 11:04:04< joanie> the developer forgot to tell us
 178 11:04:12< joanie> and Ke forgot to tell us
 179 11:04:13< joanie> :-)
 180 11:04:17< joanie> thanks Oracle!
 181 11:04:32< joanie> anyway he's Leon from Snokel Beijing
 182 11:04:44< joanie> Li said that he'd be able to attend our meetings again
 183 11:05:00 >>> API it seems that this oracle is an old fashion one, and requires a sacrifice in order to get information
 184 11:05:04< joanie> so anything related to Java a11y we need for 3.2, goes to Li
 185 11:05:09 >>> joanie laughs
 186 11:05:27< joanie> they just put OOo on the butcher block. I think that's their (latest) sacrifice
 187 11:05:31< API> joanie, so now Li is the atk maintainer, the gail maintainer, and the java gather information guy
 188 11:05:32< API> right?
 189 11:05:44< joanie> that's my understanding
 190 11:05:49 >>> clown feels for Li
 191 11:05:56 >>> joanie does too
 192 11:06:06< API> ok, so
 193 11:06:07< joanie> so what other modules....?
 194 11:06:18 >>> jhernandez doesn't understand some things....
 195 11:06:28 >>> joanie gives jhernandez the floor
 196 11:06:31< API> jhernandez, what do you don't understand?
 197 11:06:32 >>> alibezz has to go now :-/
 198 11:06:40 >>> joanie waves to alibezz 
 199 11:06:43 >>> alibezz says bye bye
 200 11:06:47::: alibezz [~alibezz@187.104.51.157] left #a11y-meeting []
 201 11:06:47< clown> would AT-SPI be a module?
 202 11:06:55< joanie> yup
 203 11:06:57< joanie> good point
 204 11:07:01< joanie> doh!
 205 11:07:18< joanie> mgorse: so critical issues you're working on should be added to the 3.2 pages
 206 11:07:22< clown> it would seem to fall in the necessary column
 207 11:07:57< joanie> clown: whilst we wait for jhernandez's question(s)
 208 11:08:07< joanie> what was yours re nice to have versus must have?
 209 11:08:11< jhernandez> well well well
 210 11:08:36< jhernandez> was just a loud think thing
 211 11:08:40< clown> joanie, I put together mods to the gs-mag to do inverse video, brightness, and contrast changes near the end of Jan.
 212 11:09:01< jhernandez> I was thinking about oracle
 213 11:09:06< joanie> clown: must have
 214 11:09:15< clown> are those "necessary"?  My impression from talking with people at AEGIS last fall was "necessary".
 215 11:09:21< jhernandez> not related to this meeting
 216 11:09:32< clown> okay.  I'll add them to the "necessary" list.
 217 11:09:35< joanie> I'll tell you why I think they are necessary, especially inverse video
 218 11:09:47< clown> yeah, that was the most requested feature.
 219 11:09:54< joanie> We used to have compiz, which has a really awesome inverse video
 220 11:10:00< joanie> people with low vision need it
 221 11:10:11< joanie> people with photophobia need it
 222 11:10:17< joanie> gnome-shell takes that away from us
 223 11:10:33< joanie> thus the ability to do inverse video -- even with no magnification -- is a key feature of gs-mag
 224 11:11:16< clown> Okay...
 225 11:11:18< joanie> I would also suggest (as I was going to mention to you anyway), that finding this inverse video feature of gs-mag *might* be nice outside of the context of "I need big text"
 226 11:11:34< clown> and, I followed your advice and did a brightness inversion rather that a colour inversion.
 227 11:11:47< joanie> clown: you will be my bestest friend EVER
 228 11:12:00< joanie> I have to wear shades to work with gnome shell for any length of time
 229 11:12:12 >>> clown looking for a screen shot (if it matters)...
 230 11:12:35< joanie> anyway, didn't mean to deep dive
 231 11:12:41< joanie> make it a must have and let's move on
 232 11:12:53< joanie> (but i'm psyched! thanks for your work clown!)
 233 11:12:55 >>> clown wonders what the benefits are as joanie's bestest friend EVER  ;-)
 234 11:13:21< clown> your welcome -- just hope lo vision users find it beneficial.
 235 11:13:44< joanie> it's gonna be way more helpful than the "high contrast inverse" theme
 236 11:13:45< joanie> trust me
 237 11:14:47< API> well, guys, just 15 minutes till the end
 238 11:14:55< API> so it would be good to try to finish this point
 239 11:15:03< API> summary
 240 11:15:04< joanie> I think it's finished?
 241 11:15:05< API> action items?
 242 11:15:09< clown> http://aegis.idrc.ocad.ca/uploads/images/InverseVideoEg.png
 243 11:15:15< joanie> Everyone add to the 3.2 pages
 244 11:15:31< joanie> Joanie will be "hall monitor" with respect to formatting
 245 11:15:40< joanie> and harassing people for updates
 246 11:16:02< joanie> API will do whatever (if anything) linking our 3.2 pages to the official planning pages with our team's name on them
 247 11:16:15< joanie> API will also add a gnome-shell section to the (our) issues page
 248 11:16:21< joanie> (right?)
 249 11:16:28< API> ok, seems good enough to me
 250 11:16:30< API> so lets move
 251 11:16:32< joanie> :-)
 252 11:16:40< API> 3. The new Accerciser docs-in-progress
 253 11:16:41< API> well 
 254 11:16:46< API> bniz is not here
 255 11:16:51< joanie> alibezz took off too
 256 11:16:58< API> and alibezz has just gone
 257 11:16:59< API> yes
 258 11:17:00< joanie> But.... She sent something to the list
 259 11:17:05< joanie> asked questions in #a11y
 260 11:17:06< API> so I have just sent her a mail
 261 11:17:10< joanie> seems to have a plan and some guidance
 262 11:17:19< API> saying that next time, she can ask for a agenda different order
 263 11:17:30< joanie> thanks API I was going to do that after the meeting
 264 11:17:40< joanie> <cough>cause I was payin' attention</cough>
 265 11:17:50< joanie> ;-)
 266 11:18:12< joanie> anyhoo, I think she has some of the direction she feels she was missing
 267 11:18:16< API> it was a sort mail
 268 11:18:26< joanie> shaunm: told her about how to use yelp 2 to view her work
 269 11:18:31< joanie> I gave her some examples
 270 11:18:43< joanie> I told her she has no "deadline" or pressure
 271 11:18:48< joanie> I think she's good to go
 272 11:19:14< API> ok, so anything else in this pudate?
 273 11:19:15< API> update?
 274 11:19:20< joanie> not from me
 275 11:19:32< API> ok, so next point ...
 276 11:19:44< API> 4. ATK Hackfest
 277 11:19:56< API> we are organizing some things localy
 278 11:20:01< API> FYI
 279 11:20:09< API> we will have an "open day"
 280 11:20:13< API> at Coruña Faculty
 281 11:20:23< API> during this week
 282 11:20:31< API> thursday afternoon
 283 11:20:39< API> we will talk about a11y and some modules
 284 11:20:49< API> but just the spanish speakers 
 285 11:21:03< joanie> so the rest of us are not invited? :-P
 286 11:21:03< API> so joanie mgorse etc don't need to be worried ;)
 287 11:21:06< joanie> or just not speaking
 288 11:21:11< API> of course you can assist
 289 11:21:15< API> if you want
 290 11:21:25< API> anyway, apart of that
 291 11:21:29< API> as we said last week
 292 11:21:36< API> it would be good to "make the homework"
 293 11:21:47< API> and during this week just some new bugs from joanie 
 294 11:21:54< API> and a brief answer from my side ...
 295 11:21:58< API> as I said
 296 11:22:10< API> please people, review those atk 2.0 bugs, propose things etc
 297 11:22:19< API> anyway, I think that it is worth to send a mail to the list
 298 11:22:24< joanie> Yeah
 299 11:22:24< API> as one major actor
 300 11:22:25< API> li
 301 11:22:32< API> is missing most of the last meetings
 302 11:22:43< API> so
 303 11:22:45< API> anything else?
 304 11:22:47< joanie> the other thing
 305 11:22:49< API> questions?
 306 11:22:49< joanie> yes
 307 11:22:49< API> doubts?
 308 11:22:50< joanie> no
 309 11:22:54< joanie> hassles
 310 11:23:03< joanie> jhernandez: Need your arrival and departure times
 311 11:23:05< joanie> mgorse: ditto
 312 11:23:14< joanie> fregl: if you're here, ditto
 313 11:23:27< mgorse> I think fregl said he couldn't come after all
 314 11:23:31< joanie> API and I would like to hash out a schedule
 315 11:23:34< joanie> really?
 316 11:23:45< joanie> well then that would also be handy to know
 317 11:23:50< joanie> anyhoo the point is this
 318 11:23:55< joanie> we have days to plan
 319 11:24:04< API> yes, it is true, this was also mentioned last week
 320 11:24:07< joanie> and if we know key players just won't be there on such-and-such a day
 321 11:24:11< joanie> we can adjust
 322 11:24:22< mgorse> I arrive Sunday night and leave Saturday morning, fyi, but I need to update the wiki
 323 11:24:26< joanie> but that requires we actually now
 324 11:24:34< joanie> mgorse: thanks (and please do)
 325 11:25:05< joanie> and I'll poke Li and Fer for their times
 326 11:25:15< joanie> And also to find out if Alex Surkov is coming
 327 11:25:32< API> joanie, about that, I send a mail to fer about it
 328 11:25:39< API> as it is supposed that I need to write
 329 11:25:42< joanie> oh oka, thanks
 330 11:25:44< API> the invitation card
 331 11:26:03< API> or letter or whatever
 332 11:26:11< API> no answer from him side
 333 11:26:13< joanie> for Surkov?
 334 11:26:16< API> you can ping him as well
 335 11:26:26< API> well, "for a russian guy" ;)
 336 11:26:29< joanie> lol
 337 11:26:34< API> Im waiting for this data
 338 11:26:35< joanie> Russian guy is Surkov
 339 11:26:45< API> in order to write the proper letter
 340 11:26:47< mgorse> Oh, wait--I think I'm misremembering as far as fregl goes. Sorry
 341 11:26:48< joanie> okay, we can ping and talk later
 342 11:27:00< joanie> 3 minutes for misc time
 343 11:27:32< API> exactly
 344 11:27:36< API> miscellaneous time!
 345 11:27:46< API> someone want to add someone not added on the agenda?
 346 11:28:10< clown> we could talk about the weather...
 347 11:28:22< API> fail!
 348 11:28:23< API> anything else?
 349 11:28:26< clown> :-)
 350 11:28:28< joanie> we could talk about the government
 351 11:28:30< joanie> (hi hi hi)
 352 11:28:44< clown> we don't have right now (technically)
 353 11:29:05< joanie> misc time is misc
 354 11:29:13< clown> as we are in the midst of an election.
 355 11:29:38< clown> not that I want to talk about it
 356 11:30:22< joanie> I have a quick silly question
 357 11:30:36< joanie> mgorse: for the purpose of meals at the hackfest, are you vegan or just vegetarian?
 358 11:30:43 >>> joanie always forgets that
 359 11:32:04< mgorse> I'm just vegetarian really
 360 11:32:18< joanie> k (so am I) thanks
 361 11:32:34 >>> joanie pokes API about the food since he's looking into that
 362 11:32:58< API> well, that was miscellaneous 
 363 11:33:00< API> thakns
 364 11:33:02< API> thanks
 365 11:33:02< joanie> lol
 366 11:33:03< API> so
 367 11:33:07< API> meeting over