10:35:10< API> so, lets start: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
10:35:30< API> 1. Some output of the last release team meeting
10:35:48< API> so
10:35:52< API> as some of you already know
10:36:01< API> now Im part of the release team
10:36:05< API> and last sunday
10:36:06 >>> joanie cheers
10:36:12< mgorse> Oh, nice. Didn't know that
10:36:15 >>> clown cheers loudly
10:36:16< jhernandez> API: congrats!
10:36:26< API> was first release team after this gnome 3 thing
10:36:28< API> thanks
10:36:30< API> so
10:36:43< API> just some extracts of that meeting related to a11y
10:36:56 >>> API searching
10:37:28< API>      Apr 17 20:24:31 <kmaraas>    particularly good to have someone from the a11y team involved
10:37:28< API>      Apr 17 20:24:51 <kmaraas>    particularly since we're supposed to get working a11y for 3.2 
10:37:43< API> and as some people already mentioned on the planet
10:37:49< API> that this gnome 3.0 is good
10:38:06< API> but lacks a lot of cleaning
10:38:25< joanie> (cleaning?)
10:38:27< API> they make a metaphor using furniture on a flat
10:38:41< API> I guess that a11y is also a couch that it requires to be properly placed
10:38:57< API> and I hope that that stament means that they will listening us
10:39:05< joanie> or sitting on us
10:39:12< API> the other thing is something we already mentioned
10:39:16< API> there are a features page
10:39:21< API> with a accessibility page
10:39:28< API> and I mentioned that we are working on that
10:39:34< API> it is our "gnome 3.2" page
10:39:35< API> sooo
10:39:48< API> as this is point 2 is a good way to go to next point
10:39:59< API> any question or doubt before that?
10:40:13< clown> a11y is not a couch, it's the elephant in the room.
10:40:22< joanie> +1
10:40:56< clown> API, you are talking about this page:  https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo/Issues ?
10:41:04< API> clown, yep
10:41:07< API> in summary
10:41:13< API> the main feature
10:41:17< API> for 3.2 
10:41:21< API> related with accessibility
10:41:32< API> as I mentioned on the release team meeting
10:41:35< API> is "get the things working"
10:41:44< API> so
10:41:55< API> solving that issues are the features that we want on 3.2
10:42:01< API> unless someone has a better idea
10:42:17< joanie> Does it have to be limited to those things?
10:42:23< clown> and "the issues" are as documented on the 3.2 wiki page?
10:42:33< API> joanie, no
10:42:35< joanie> clown: We need to add to them
10:42:35< API> as I said
10:42:41< API> the *main* feature
10:42:46< API> is get things solved
10:42:48< clown> joanie:  understood.
10:42:51< API> we can add things on that page
10:42:59< API> but please be realistic
10:43:10< API> things that you think that will be ready for 2.2
10:43:10< clown> we're not going to solve world peace?
10:43:11< API> sorry
10:43:12< API> 3.2
10:43:20< joanie> API +1 to realistic. That's why I have the must have page and the nice to haves page
10:43:31< clown> +1
10:43:47< joanie> I personally intend to strive for both
10:43:48< API> joanie, and this confirm that the current 3.2 feature page, accessibility section
10:43:56< API> will be mostly a link to our accessibility planning pages
10:44:11< clown> so, we need to discuss, at times, what is "necessary" vs. "nice-to-have".
10:44:18< API> btw, I think that we already crossed the line
10:44:19< joanie> all the more reason to keep those 3.2 planning pages current and clean too
10:44:20< API> so 
10:44:21< clown> what is the vehicle for that discussion?
10:44:25< API> lets move to the next point:
10:44:30< joanie> crossed the line?
10:44:44< API> GNOME 3.x
10:44:44< API>     Module updates and progress towards a more accessible 3.0.1
10:44:44< API>     3.2 planning 
10:44:54< API> I mean that we are mostly finished the release team point
10:45:00< API> and talking about this
10:45:01 >>> joanie nods
10:45:53< joanie> Well, I'll start on the more accessible 3.0.1
10:46:06< joanie> the last of the Orca oopses was fixed
10:46:14< joanie> doesn't mean everything's perfect
10:46:28< joanie> but Orca should (hopefully) more or less be working in gnome 3
10:46:44< joanie> which means we can use it as one (or an additional) tool to look at other a11y issues
10:46:48< joanie> e.g. in gnome-shell
10:47:12 >>> joanie is done.
10:47:31< API> joanie, as you mention gnome shell
10:47:32 >>> joanie wonders where accerciser is
10:47:40< API> I didn't get any update from dan winship
10:47:49< API> about the patches on the bugzilla
10:47:53< API> included on the testing distro
10:47:53< joanie> ugh
10:47:59< API> probably I should try to ping him
10:48:09< joanie> would it be helpful if I pinged him
10:48:17< API> not required, thanks
10:48:39< joanie> jhernandez: any Accerciser updates?
10:48:43< jhernandez> accerciser now has a new gschema but I'm working in its integration
10:49:21< joanie> estimated time to completion?
10:49:28< jhernandez> it's a problem because of our well-know problems with mixing gtk2 and gi
10:49:29< joanie> i.e. we're looking at 3.0.2?
10:50:11< jhernandez> well, 3.0.2 is ??
10:50:16< joanie> not monday
10:50:18< joanie> :-)
10:50:34< jhernandez> ok, next
10:50:36< jhernandez> probably
10:50:50< joanie> https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointOne#Schedule
10:51:03< joanie> end of may
10:51:17< jhernandez> yes
10:51:26< joanie> cool
10:51:31< jhernandez> end of may is factible for me
10:53:02< API> joanie, anything else about 3.0.1
10:53:04< API> ?
10:53:10< joanie> not from me. clown?
10:53:28< clown> nothing here.  (wonders what it might be)
10:53:43< joanie> no just asking about any possible updates
10:53:47< API> so moving
10:53:50< jhernandez> well, bug 554057
10:53:52< API> 3.2 planning 
10:53:54< API> ups sorry
10:53:55 >>> joanie looks
10:54:22< joanie> ugh, I meant to test that and forgot
10:54:24< jhernandez> sorry API, my connection today is soooo sloooow
10:54:44< API> no problem
10:54:45< API> anyway
10:54:49< mgorse> The patch is in 3.0.9.
10:54:54< API> it seems that something is commited
10:55:10< jhernandez> yes, so it's included
10:55:24< API> any idea of why this bug is not closeD?
10:55:33< joanie> so with any luck, "fallback mode" will be an option
10:55:57< joanie> api probably a question for mclasen
10:56:06< API> ok, I will add that question on the bu
10:56:07< API> g
10:57:47< joanie> I'll remove it from the 3.2 issues page
10:58:14< API> done
10:58:14< API> ok
10:58:22< API> so anything else about 3.0.1?
10:58:31< API> moving to 3.2 planning?
10:58:51 >>> joanie nods
10:59:07 >>> jhernandez too
10:59:12< API> ok, so
10:59:23< API> 2.2 3.2 planning 
10:59:32< API> I guess that we need to start as the last meeting
10:59:37< API> work in progress
10:59:38< API> sorry, 
10:59:45< API> joanie, ?
10:59:57< joanie> I'm not sure I get the question
11:00:05< joanie> or are you just giving me the floor so to speak?
11:00:34 >>> jhernandez pushes joanie to the floor
11:00:36< joanie> Assuming I have the floor....
11:00:41< joanie> heh thanks jhernandez 
11:00:49< jhernandez> :P
11:00:58< joanie> So based on last week's meeting and the absence of additional feedback
11:01:06< joanie> here is where I personally feel things stand
11:01:13< API> joanie, yes you have the floor
11:01:32< joanie> the 3.2 pages we're working on need to be worked on by all module maintainers and critical developers
11:01:54< joanie> There's currently some Orca stuff, some accerciser stuff, and some gs-mag stuff
11:02:18< joanie> there is a noticable absence of gnome-shell a11y issues on https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo/Issues however
11:02:19< joanie> ;-)
11:02:30< joanie> so.... API could you add items as appropriate to that page?
11:02:33< joanie> please?
11:02:49< API> ejem
11:02:50< API> yes
11:02:53< API> I can
11:02:55< joanie> jhernandez: As you make progress on the Accerciser stuff, could you keep that stuff up to date
11:02:58< joanie> please
11:02:58< API> as I said before
11:03:04< API> <API> sorry, 
11:03:05< joanie> clown: ditto for you and gs-mag
11:03:08 >>> jhernandez nods
11:03:14< joanie> I'll do that for Orca
11:03:18< joanie> As for JAW
11:03:25< joanie> Li's not here, Ke's not here
11:03:28 >>> clown nods.  trying to decide if the other issues are "necessary" or "nice to have".
11:03:41< joanie> clown: In a minute let's discuss
11:03:45< clown> sure.
11:03:46< joanie> but for JAW
11:03:59< joanie> seems Oracle gave us a new developer and forgot to tell us
11:04:04< joanie> the developer forgot to tell us
11:04:12< joanie> and Ke forgot to tell us
11:04:13< joanie> :-)
11:04:17< joanie> thanks Oracle!
11:04:32< joanie> anyway he's Leon from Snokel Beijing
11:04:44< joanie> Li said that he'd be able to attend our meetings again
11:05:00 >>> API it seems that this oracle is an old fashion one, and requires a sacrifice in order to get information
11:05:04< joanie> so anything related to Java a11y we need for 3.2, goes to Li
11:05:09 >>> joanie laughs
11:05:27< joanie> they just put OOo on the butcher block. I think that's their (latest) sacrifice
11:05:31< API> joanie, so now Li is the atk maintainer, the gail maintainer, and the java gather information guy
11:05:32< API> right?
11:05:44< joanie> that's my understanding
11:05:49 >>> clown feels for Li
11:05:56 >>> joanie does too
11:06:06< API> ok, so
11:06:07< joanie> so what other modules....?
11:06:18 >>> jhernandez doesn't understand some things....
11:06:28 >>> joanie gives jhernandez the floor
11:06:31< API> jhernandez, what do you don't understand?
11:06:32 >>> alibezz has to go now :-/
11:06:40 >>> joanie waves to alibezz 
11:06:43 >>> alibezz says bye bye
11:06:47::: alibezz [~alibezz@187.104.51.157] left #a11y-meeting []
11:06:47< clown> would AT-SPI be a module?
11:06:55< joanie> yup
11:06:57< joanie> good point
11:07:01< joanie> doh!
11:07:18< joanie> mgorse: so critical issues you're working on should be added to the 3.2 pages
11:07:22< clown> it would seem to fall in the necessary column
11:07:57< joanie> clown: whilst we wait for jhernandez's question(s)
11:08:07< joanie> what was yours re nice to have versus must have?
11:08:11< jhernandez> well well well
11:08:36< jhernandez> was just a loud think thing
11:08:40< clown> joanie, I put together mods to the gs-mag to do inverse video, brightness, and contrast changes near the end of Jan.
11:09:01< jhernandez> I was thinking about oracle
11:09:06< joanie> clown: must have
11:09:15< clown> are those "necessary"?  My impression from talking with people at AEGIS last fall was "necessary".
11:09:21< jhernandez> not related to this meeting
11:09:32< clown> okay.  I'll add them to the "necessary" list.
11:09:35< joanie> I'll tell you why I think they are necessary, especially inverse video
11:09:47< clown> yeah, that was the most requested feature.
11:09:54< joanie> We used to have compiz, which has a really awesome inverse video
11:10:00< joanie> people with low vision need it
11:10:11< joanie> people with photophobia need it
11:10:17< joanie> gnome-shell takes that away from us
11:10:33< joanie> thus the ability to do inverse video -- even with no magnification -- is a key feature of gs-mag
11:11:16< clown> Okay...
11:11:18< joanie> I would also suggest (as I was going to mention to you anyway), that finding this inverse video feature of gs-mag *might* be nice outside of the context of "I need big text"
11:11:34< clown> and, I followed your advice and did a brightness inversion rather that a colour inversion.
11:11:47< joanie> clown: you will be my bestest friend EVER
11:12:00< joanie> I have to wear shades to work with gnome shell for any length of time
11:12:12 >>> clown looking for a screen shot (if it matters)...
11:12:35< joanie> anyway, didn't mean to deep dive
11:12:41< joanie> make it a must have and let's move on
11:12:53< joanie> (but i'm psyched! thanks for your work clown!)
11:12:55 >>> clown wonders what the benefits are as joanie's bestest friend EVER  ;-)
11:13:21< clown> your welcome -- just hope lo vision users find it beneficial.
11:13:44< joanie> it's gonna be way more helpful than the "high contrast inverse" theme
11:13:45< joanie> trust me
11:14:47< API> well, guys, just 15 minutes till the end
11:14:55< API> so it would be good to try to finish this point
11:15:03< API> summary
11:15:04< joanie> I think it's finished?
11:15:05< API> action items?
11:15:09< clown> http://aegis.idrc.ocad.ca/uploads/images/InverseVideoEg.png
11:15:15< joanie> Everyone add to the 3.2 pages
11:15:31< joanie> Joanie will be "hall monitor" with respect to formatting
11:15:40< joanie> and harassing people for updates
11:16:02< joanie> API will do whatever (if anything) linking our 3.2 pages to the official planning pages with our team's name on them
11:16:15< joanie> API will also add a gnome-shell section to the (our) issues page
11:16:21< joanie> (right?)
11:16:28< API> ok, seems good enough to me
11:16:30< API> so lets move
11:16:32< joanie> :-)
11:16:40< API> 3. The new Accerciser docs-in-progress
11:16:41< API> well 
11:16:46< API> bniz is not here
11:16:51< joanie> alibezz took off too
11:16:58< API> and alibezz has just gone
11:16:59< API> yes
11:17:00< joanie> But.... She sent something to the list
11:17:05< joanie> asked questions in #a11y
11:17:06< API> so I have just sent her a mail
11:17:10< joanie> seems to have a plan and some guidance
11:17:19< API> saying that next time, she can ask for a agenda different order
11:17:30< joanie> thanks API I was going to do that after the meeting
11:17:40< joanie> <cough>cause I was payin' attention</cough>
11:17:50< joanie> ;-)
11:18:12< joanie> anyhoo, I think she has some of the direction she feels she was missing
11:18:16< API> it was a sort mail
11:18:26< joanie> shaunm: told her about how to use yelp 2 to view her work
11:18:31< joanie> I gave her some examples
11:18:43< joanie> I told her she has no "deadline" or pressure
11:18:48< joanie> I think she's good to go
11:19:14< API> ok, so anything else in this pudate?
11:19:15< API> update?
11:19:20< joanie> not from me
11:19:32< API> ok, so next point ...
11:19:44< API> 4. ATK Hackfest
11:19:56< API> we are organizing some things localy
11:20:01< API> FYI
11:20:09< API> we will have an "open day"
11:20:13< API> at Coruña Faculty
11:20:23< API> during this week
11:20:31< API> thursday afternoon
11:20:39< API> we will talk about a11y and some modules
11:20:49< API> but just the spanish speakers 
11:21:03< joanie> so the rest of us are not invited? :-P
11:21:03< API> so joanie mgorse etc don't need to be worried ;)
11:21:06< joanie> or just not speaking
11:21:11< API> of course you can assist
11:21:15< API> if you want
11:21:25< API> anyway, apart of that
11:21:29< API> as we said last week
11:21:36< API> it would be good to "make the homework"
11:21:47< API> and during this week just some new bugs from joanie 
11:21:54< API> and a brief answer from my side ...
11:21:58< API> as I said
11:22:10< API> please people, review those atk 2.0 bugs, propose things etc
11:22:19< API> anyway, I think that it is worth to send a mail to the list
11:22:24< joanie> Yeah
11:22:24< API> as one major actor
11:22:25< API> li
11:22:32< API> is missing most of the last meetings
11:22:43< API> so
11:22:45< API> anything else?
11:22:47< joanie> the other thing
11:22:49< API> questions?
11:22:49< joanie> yes
11:22:49< API> doubts?
11:22:50< joanie> no
11:22:54< joanie> hassles
11:23:03< joanie> jhernandez: Need your arrival and departure times
11:23:05< joanie> mgorse: ditto
11:23:14< joanie> fregl: if you're here, ditto
11:23:27< mgorse> I think fregl said he couldn't come after all
11:23:31< joanie> API and I would like to hash out a schedule
11:23:34< joanie> really?
11:23:45< joanie> well then that would also be handy to know
11:23:50< joanie> anyhoo the point is this
11:23:55< joanie> we have days to plan
11:24:04< API> yes, it is true, this was also mentioned last week
11:24:07< joanie> and if we know key players just won't be there on such-and-such a day
11:24:11< joanie> we can adjust
11:24:22< mgorse> I arrive Sunday night and leave Saturday morning, fyi, but I need to update the wiki
11:24:26< joanie> but that requires we actually now
11:24:34< joanie> mgorse: thanks (and please do)
11:25:05< joanie> and I'll poke Li and Fer for their times
11:25:15< joanie> And also to find out if Alex Surkov is coming
11:25:32< API> joanie, about that, I send a mail to fer about it
11:25:39< API> as it is supposed that I need to write
11:25:42< joanie> oh oka, thanks
11:25:44< API> the invitation card
11:26:03< API> or letter or whatever
11:26:11< API> no answer from him side
11:26:13< joanie> for Surkov?
11:26:16< API> you can ping him as well
11:26:26< API> well, "for a russian guy" ;)
11:26:29< joanie> lol
11:26:34< API> Im waiting for this data
11:26:35< joanie> Russian guy is Surkov
11:26:45< API> in order to write the proper letter
11:26:47< mgorse> Oh, wait--I think I'm misremembering as far as fregl goes. Sorry
11:26:48< joanie> okay, we can ping and talk later
11:27:00< joanie> 3 minutes for misc time
11:27:32< API> exactly
11:27:36< API> miscellaneous time!
11:27:46< API> someone want to add someone not added on the agenda?
11:28:10< clown> we could talk about the weather...
11:28:22< API> fail!
11:28:23< API> anything else?
11:28:26< clown> :-)
11:28:28< joanie> we could talk about the government
11:28:30< joanie> (hi hi hi)
11:28:44< clown> we don't have right now (technically)
11:29:05< joanie> misc time is misc
11:29:13< clown> as we are in the midst of an election.
11:29:38< clown> not that I want to talk about it
11:30:22< joanie> I have a quick silly question
11:30:36< joanie> mgorse: for the purpose of meals at the hackfest, are you vegan or just vegetarian?
11:30:43 >>> joanie always forgets that
11:32:04< mgorse> I'm just vegetarian really
11:32:18< joanie> k (so am I) thanks
11:32:34 >>> joanie pokes API about the food since he's looking into that
11:32:58< API> well, that was miscellaneous 
11:33:00< API> thakns
11:33:02< API> thanks
11:33:02< joanie> lol
11:33:03< API> so
11:33:07< API> meeting over