10:35:00< API> so lets start the meeting
10:35:09< API> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings#Agenda_for_the_Next_Meeting
10:35:20< API> 1.ATK Hackfest 
10:35:24< API> less than a month
10:35:32< API> so we need to coordinate some things
10:35:40< API> don't worry people that wont be there
10:35:48< API> this will not be a monotematic meeting ;)
10:36:08< API> 1.1 Progress on the "Homework" 
10:36:25< API> well, as you know, we have been adding bugs to our "atk 2.0" big bug:
10:36:42< API> joanie and me were the main reporters
10:36:58< API> btw
10:37:00< API> this bug:
10:37:02< API> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=638537
10:37:05::: jhernandez_afk is now known as jhernandez
10:37:23< API> but our intention was that those bugs would be somewhat discussed before the hackfest
10:37:29< API> so please, people 
10:37:31< API> take a look
10:37:47< API> most of those bugs are basically descirption of the problem
10:37:55< API> but not patches or solution yet
10:38:00< API> please take a look to them
10:38:10< API> and suggest things if you have a good idea
10:38:20< API> I would like to avoid arrive to the hackfest
10:38:26< API> with a lot of bugs to solve
10:38:27< AlanBell> o/
10:38:32< joanie> And at least be thinking of them so that we don't waste time at the hackfest.
10:38:39< API> but with no ideas thought
10:38:46< joanie> exactly
10:38:48< API> in the same way, 
10:38:57< API> our idea is create a kind of agenda of the hackfest
10:39:11< API> based on the bugs, and the ideas on each of one
10:39:30< API> so if we have a better idea
10:39:35< API> of each of one
10:39:39< API> we can create a better agenda
10:39:42< API> something like
10:39:46< API> day 0, review general
10:39:52< API> day 1, focus management day
10:40:02< API> day 2, event emission-batching day
10:40:06< API> etc
10:40:10< joanie> and also (possibly) people's availability. I'm not sure everyone will be able to be there for the whole time.
10:40:28< API> pleae note that this list is a in-the-fly list
10:40:41< API> yes, it is a good point
10:40:55< API> ie: today aleiva told me that he will not be on the hackfest the friday
10:40:56::: nischal [~nischal@180.151.35.180] joined #a11y-meeting
10:41:02< API> now I know that it would not be a good idea 
10:41:08< API> somethink like
10:41:15< API> day 5: screen reader day
10:41:22< joanie> :-)
10:41:40< API> so as joanie said, please write down arrive time and depart time
10:42:03< API> any question about the homework ?
10:42:15< API> aleiva, jhernandez msanchez fregl ?
10:42:32< API> (as you are listed on the hackfest table)
10:42:42 >>> jhernandez no prob
10:42:44 >>> joanie notes that fregl mentioned he would not be able to attend this meeting after all, but will read the log and thus is hanging out.
10:43:15< API> ok,  then moving on,
10:43:18< API> 2.2 Hotel booking and discount 
10:43:21< API> ups
10:43:24< API> 1.2 Hotel booking and discount 
10:43:34< API> well, for the moment just joanie booked the hotel
10:43:39< API> but this week I learnt something
10:43:46< API> we have a kind of discount 
10:43:49< API> we == Igalia
10:43:51< API> with that hotel
10:44:04< API> so
10:44:07< API> if you use that hotel
10:44:16< joanie> (and are not joanie)
10:44:20< joanie> ;-)
10:44:24< API> please told to them that you are related to Igalia
10:44:35< API> and want the discount
10:44:45< API> anyway, we will update the wiki
10:44:51< API> and send a mail, both about 1.1 and 1.2
10:44:57< API> questions?
10:45:10< mgorse> Is there a "need roommate" column on the wiki or something similar?
10:45:44< mgorse> oh, there is
10:45:44< API> hmm, not
10:45:56< API> there is a need room
10:46:07< API> I think that we didn't add it because this was by default
10:46:25< mgorse> Actually, yeah; might be worth adding though
10:46:30< joanie> gnome rules are that if you want reimbursement, you can have half
10:46:34< API> although I have just realized that if by default it is a double room
10:46:44< joanie> I can do that (add the column)
10:48:42< joanie> so....
10:49:04< joanie> mgorse: is one of the few people seeking reimbursement I think
10:49:10< joanie> li would be another (I think)
10:49:30< joanie> other attendees are sorting things out for themselves (e.g. aleiva and jhernandez)
10:49:36< mgorse> ok
10:49:42< joanie> so mgorse perhaps the thing to do is connect with li?
10:49:47< mgorse> yeah
10:50:09< joanie> so I'm going to pass on the column
10:50:12< joanie> check with Li
10:50:21< joanie> assume the foundation will reimburse you for 50%
10:50:36< joanie> if you have applied for reimbursement
10:50:59< joanie> make sense?
10:51:16< mgorse> right
10:52:34< joanie> so moving on?
10:52:52< API> ok, so anything else?
10:52:56< API> question, doubts?
10:53:54< aleiva> nope
10:54:31< API> ok, so lets move
10:54:39< API> well, just 25 min about the hackfest
10:54:50< API> next item
10:54:54< API> 2.Testing the fix for bug 554057
10:55:04< API> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=554057
10:55:06< API> joanie?
10:55:12< API> I think that this is your point
10:55:21< joanie> Yeah, it's a simple enough (looking) patch
10:55:36< joanie> but I suspect Matthias and Vincent are waiting for us to bless it
10:55:48< joanie> and Matthias' comment concerns me a tad
10:55:55< joanie> Here is a patch that seems to fix things for me. I'd appreciate some testing of
10:55:58< joanie> this; every change to the menu code is bound to break something...
10:56:12< joanie> It makes me wonder if they don't have unit tests, etc.
10:56:22< API> probably not
10:56:26< joanie> i.e. I don't want to just test that it fixes the reported problem
10:56:30< API> well, how about include this on the testingdistro?
10:56:31< joanie> because as soon as we bless it 
10:56:35< joanie> something will break
10:56:41< joanie> and it will become "our fault"
10:56:43< joanie> :-/
10:56:44< API> jhernandez, I guess that you are planning to create a new spin soon, right?
10:56:53< jhernandez> API no problem
10:57:09< API> so that would be about add another tar gz
10:57:11< jhernandez> i thougth about this when I saw the patch
10:57:13< API> with gtk3
10:57:19< API> joanie, gtk3, right?
10:57:20< joanie> jhernandez: you rock! :-)
10:57:25< joanie> API correct
10:57:34< joanie> including whatever state gail is in these days
10:58:02< API> jhernandez, you need someone giving you this tar.gz ?
10:58:09< jhernandez> not a problem, if this patch is over the 3.0.0 release i can easily apply this patch directly in the package
10:58:10< API> joanie, I don't understand this gail thing
10:58:15< API> jhernandez, ok thanks
10:58:47< joanie> API never mind. I'm just not sure where they are with the conversion or if it has any implications for what one needs to do when building it to ensure it is actually accessible.
10:58:59< joanie> forget I said anything
10:59:07< API> joanie, with the conversion you mean the move of gail to gtk?
10:59:13< joanie> yeah
10:59:24< joanie> you're not good at forgetting stuff are you? :-P
10:59:25< API> joanie, afaik, this conversion is not on the master at all
10:59:33< API> I think that they have a branch or something
10:59:37< joanie> ok
10:59:52 >>> API checking
11:00:13< API>   remotes/origin/drop-gai
11:00:17< API>   remotes/origin/drop-gail
11:00:31< API> well, although I guess that this is not the best name for that branch
11:00:40< API> integrate-gail would be better
11:00:48< API> anyway, no more nitpicks
11:00:51 >>> joanie bites her tongue
11:00:54< API> summary:
11:01:09< API> 1) jhernandez will include this patch on the next spint of the testing distro
11:01:21< API> 2) we will be good guys, and use the testing distro, and check if
11:01:27< API> the bug
11:01:29< API> is solved
11:01:32< joanie> AND
11:01:34< API> and if other things stop
11:01:35< API> to work
11:01:40< joanie> that all other menus keep working
11:01:44< joanie> including context menus
11:01:48 >>> jhernandez updating testing distro's wiki
11:01:58< prlw1> (given the suggested patch, I think you worry too much...)
11:02:06< API> well, anything else? questions, doubts?
11:02:17< API> prlw1, menu management is somewhat tricky
11:02:21< joanie> prlw1: Given that they didn't notice the issue before makes me think otherwise
11:02:29< API> being paranoid is a good thing here
11:03:23< API> no questions, no doubts
11:03:26< API> so moving on
11:03:34< API> 3.2 planning 
11:03:39< API> well, 
11:03:49< API> joanie, is starting a 3.2 planning page
11:04:04< API> and I didn't made my homework properly, and just made a superficial review
11:04:04< joanie> pages plural :-)
11:04:08< joanie> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ThreePointTwo
11:04:09< API> so in summary
11:04:13< API> work in progress
11:04:22< API> joanie go on please
11:04:37< joanie> Well, what I've done is try to address the problems of the 3.0 page
11:04:41< joanie> which in my mind were:
11:04:46< joanie> 1. Too freaking long
11:04:53< joanie> 2. No one updates their status as expected
11:05:00< joanie> 3. Not uniform in appearance 
11:05:13< joanie> 4. Stuff on there which no one is actually addressing
11:05:27< joanie> So the pages I've created are not complete
11:05:30< joanie> they are examples
11:05:38< joanie> including a template that should be followed
11:05:47< joanie> for things which are actually being worked on
11:06:00< joanie> by people who can find the time to keep their status updated
11:06:21< joanie> What's important to note is that these pages are what will be shown to Board (re funding needs)
11:06:28< joanie> and to the release team
11:06:29< joanie> etc.
11:06:44< joanie> so if team members want to take a look at what I've done so far
11:06:48< joanie> give feedback,
11:06:55< joanie> add their items should they have any, etc.
11:06:59< joanie> it would be teh awesome
11:07:18< joanie> (done)
11:08:48< joanie> Well, I will add one more thing.... 
11:09:04< joanie> API you had emailed the team ml about needing to fill out the full gnome community 3.2 plans
11:09:10< joanie> once people fill out the 3.2 pages
11:09:31< joanie> we in theory should be able to respond to the gnome 3.2 requirements/request
11:11:01 >>> joanie hums a quiet tune
11:11:12< API> well, I didn't have anything to add
11:11:16< API> and seems that no one else
11:11:20< API> questions, doubhts?
11:11:22< API> doubts?
11:11:47 >>> clown alibezz is in the #a11y room, may be coming here.
11:12:18::: alibezz [~alibezz@189.115.230.211] joined #a11y-meeting
11:12:21< joanie> yay!
11:12:23< joanie> welcome alibezz 
11:12:25< joanie> :-)
11:12:30< joanie> perfect timing too
11:12:32< alibezz> I was in the wrong chat :S
11:12:34< alibezz> hahahahaha
11:12:35< clown> you found us!
11:12:38< alibezz> #a11y
11:13:01< alibezz> how's everything going? :)
11:13:20< joanie> Well, I'm guessing API is about to move to the next agenda item
11:13:24< API> alibezz, well we are finishing
11:13:28< joanie> 4. Women's Outreach Program update?
11:13:33< API> just 15 minutes til the end
11:13:37< alibezz> mmmm
11:13:47< API> so yes
11:13:50< API> as joanie said 
11:13:51< alibezz> I was in #a11y
11:13:56< API> you arrived just in time
11:13:56< alibezz> and everything was so quiet
11:13:57< alibezz> hahahaha
11:14:00< API> alibezz, on the meeting page
11:14:05< API> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
11:14:14< API> it is explained were we held the meeting
11:14:14< alibezz> yeah. so, I'm still working on the accerciser page
11:14:16< API> and the agenda
11:14:21< API> so anyone could add items on it
11:14:24< clown> the above looks like it's saying  we're just finishing item 4., but we are just starting it...
11:14:44< API> clown, yes sorry
11:14:59< API> alibezz, you arrived just in time to start that point
11:15:00< clown> no problem.  different people typing at the same time...
11:15:00< API> sooo
11:15:12< API> alibezz, you are writing accerciser page
11:15:14< alibezz> yeah the fault was mine(about the confusion between #a11y and #a11y-meeting)
11:15:17< alibezz> yes
11:15:18< API> some public place to see it?
11:15:26< API> have you talked with bnitz ?
11:15:29< alibezz> I can post it on the list right now
11:15:35< alibezz> but the notation is still mixed
11:15:39< alibezz> docbook and mallard
11:15:54< alibezz> It's my first big experience with mallard
11:16:14< alibezz> I was copying some patterns from the a11y page on gnome-docs/gnome-help/C
11:16:16< joanie> alibezz: Understood. It took me a while.
11:16:25< alibezz> but it's divided on topics
11:16:26< bnitz> alibezz, thank you
11:16:34< alibezz> and I don't know if it would be good for us
11:16:47< alibezz> so I'm gonna post this mixed version on the list with my doubts ok?
11:16:52< joanie> sure!
11:16:56< alibezz> cool
11:16:57< alibezz> =)
11:17:07< bnitz> alibezz, contact me separate, I can send an early outline of the mallard docs, see if it jives with what you're doing.
11:17:28< alibezz> what's your mail bnitz?
11:18:34< bnitz> alibezz msg'd it to you.
11:18:42< alibezz> cool
11:19:10 >>> joanie is excited about all the mallardizing taking place
11:19:39< alibezz> I'm sending the mixed version. I sort of organized the older sections in  "<link xref " etc etc, and each older section should be related to one of them
11:19:49< alibezz> but sometimes these sections seem to be so big!
11:19:57< alibezz> I'm mailing it for you all right now
11:20:07< API> alibezz, no problem you are starting
11:20:10< API> thanks for the update
11:20:13< joanie> alibezz: When I did Orca's (now in the Orca module), in the end I started over.
11:20:18< joanie> I'm not saying you should do that
11:20:28< joanie> merely that this is a big task -- and a complicated one
11:20:40< joanie> and maybe the thing to do is break some sections up
11:21:11< bnitz> joanie you mean you wrote the mallard docs completely from scratch or rebuilt the organization and cut/paste sections from the old docs?
11:21:23< joanie> I took Mallard as an opportunity to really focus on Topic Based help
11:21:30< joanie> which shaunm can tell you all about
11:21:36< bnitz> Yes.
11:21:37< joanie> and which bnitz has an outline of
11:21:39< joanie> :-)
11:21:48< bnitz> That's what I'll send alibezz.
11:22:00< joanie> in answer to your question, all of the above
11:22:12< joanie> there were factual errors, typos, etc. in the old docs
11:22:16< joanie> and it all needed reworking
11:22:32< joanie> so I fired up emacs and started writing, pulling in text when appropriate
11:22:38< joanie> (done)
11:23:07< alibezz> :$
11:23:09< alibezz> sent
11:23:13< alibezz> I'm really shy hahaha
11:23:15< alibezz> it's a mess
11:23:22< joanie> i'm sure it's not a mess
11:23:26< joanie> and thanks!
11:23:30< API> np, it is still in a work in progress state
11:23:36< API> and sorry to be rough
11:23:38< alibezz> yeah yeah
11:23:42< API> but just five minutes till the end
11:23:55< API> and one item left
11:24:01< API> anything else, or can we move on?
11:24:12 >>> joanie sits quietly
11:24:34< API> sooo
11:24:37< API> moving on
11:24:42< API> 5. What must one do to get all apps showing up in GNOME 3?? 
11:24:51< API> joanie, added that point
11:24:56< clown> what means "all apps"?
11:25:02< API> but I guess that mgorse is the best one to answer that
11:25:11< API> it seems that some apps are not properly registered
11:25:22< API> on the at-spi2 registry
11:25:23< joanie> (and which apps those are seems to vary)
11:25:28< bnitz> what clown says.  What do we want to test?  Do we have a list?
11:25:50< API> joanie, anyway, this is something that you realized just with fedora 15
11:25:51< joanie> gedit (sometimes) gcalctool (sometimes) Fedora 15 fully updated
11:26:08< API> or it is also affect our testing distro
11:26:09< API> spin 2
11:26:24< joanie> and that I don't know yet since I need to have a usb image
11:26:43< joanie> my other systems are nice, clean, fresh and not going to be written over
11:26:48< joanie> my netbook is available
11:26:49< clown> +1 to usb image.
11:26:58 >>> jhernandez working on this :S
11:27:12< clown> jhernandez:  no pressure.
11:27:14< joanie> jhernandez: (It's not a "hurry up")
11:27:28< joanie> It's more of an answer to API as to why I cannot answer his question
11:27:31< joanie> ;-)
11:27:53< mgorse> I guess it's basically a "hurry up and look at this" for me :)
11:28:05< joanie> heh
11:28:11< joanie> what the agenda item is
11:28:14< joanie> is a plea for help
11:28:15< joanie> :-)
11:28:22< joanie> is anyone else experiencing this?
11:28:34< mgorse> since off-hand I don't know what's going on; need to look at it
11:28:35< API> joanie, I didn't notice that on the spin 2
11:28:48< API> but I didn't make a full and deep review here
11:28:55< clown> joanie, what do I need to do to experience this?
11:28:56< joanie> msanchez: you use fedora
11:29:06 >>> clown uses F14.
11:29:12< joanie> you need 15
11:29:13< mgorse> I know that other people are, anyway--people were asking about it on the orca list, trying it with arch
11:29:36 >>> clown starts looking for yet another machine to install f15 on...
11:29:53< mgorse> jhernandez: I thought this was happening on the spin, too?
11:29:55 >>> joanie pokes msanchez
11:30:05< clown> the spin is suse, right?
11:30:11< joanie> yup
11:30:15< jhernandez> yes, is suse
11:30:23< jhernandez> and is happening
11:30:33< joanie> jhernandez: so you are seeing this still?
11:30:38 >>> msanchez is slow reading today...
11:30:40< clown> ok, so if I test the spin, I can experience this problem.
11:30:44< jhernandez> i'm on this
11:30:54< joanie> phew
11:31:00< joanie> jhernandez: You are so becoming my hero
11:31:03< jhernandez> but didn't get lot of continued focus on this
11:31:04< clown> jhernandez rocks.
11:31:05< joanie> it's a maddening bug
11:31:10< jhernandez> :s
11:31:13< msanchez> well, can't tell, since I have at-spi2 uninstalled in the system
11:31:28< clown> "uninstalled"  interesting phrasing.
11:31:37< msanchez> I just use it inside the jhbuild so the only apps I get exposed are those I explicitly test: accerciser, epiphany
11:31:46< clown> ah...
11:31:57< msanchez> other than tha I use F14
11:32:10 >>> joanie thinks everyone should use bleeding edge with a11y support enabled
11:32:14< joanie> ;-)
11:32:27< jhernandez> I'm getting some apps by enabling the a11y-toolkit and talking with atspi with ipython
11:32:55< joanie> I get some, but not all. And sometimes I get apps I don't get other times. So I think there might be a timing issue
11:33:09 >>> jhernandez thinks the same
11:33:30< joanie> anyway, if the bottom line is known/mysterious issue, that's good enough for me
11:33:43< joanie> (as far as concluding this topic goes)
11:34:24< API> and it is hard to create a bug with that
11:34:29< API> if it is not clear how to reproduce it
11:34:50< clown> just for clarification -- on the testing spin, is accessibility turned on automatically?
11:35:05< clown> or do I have to turn it on after logging in?
11:35:23< API> clown, afaik, accessibiliy is on by default
11:35:24< API> jhernandez, ?
11:35:30< jhernandez> i setted up this in desktop-schemas, and it is
11:35:49< clown> okay, thanks.
11:35:51< jhernandez> at least for mw
11:35:54< jhernandez> *me
11:35:58< jhernandez> :]
11:36:05< clown> now I have a better idea what to look for.
11:36:11< joanie> jhernandez: can we talk about the switch later?
11:36:18< joanie> because that might change things
11:36:41< API> well, people, 5 minutes over time
11:36:42< API> so
11:36:47< API> conclusions?
11:36:49< API> action items?
11:36:51< jhernandez> joanie: ok
11:37:09< clown> jhernandez:  eta on next spin?  (again, no pressure).
11:38:19< jhernandez> well, I'm basically with the spin and testing the mistery bug
11:38:20::: alibezz [~alibezz@189.115.230.211] quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:38:31< API> ok, so summary:
11:38:33< clown> cool.
11:38:34< jhernandez> i have connection at home today
11:38:41< API> 1. there is a problem with some apps not being registered
11:38:48< jhernandez> soo, i can work some time
11:38:52< API> 1.1 we need to try to have a proper way to reproduce it
11:38:54< jhernandez> ;)
11:38:57< API> action item;
11:39:04::: alibezz [~alibezz@189.115.230.211.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] joined #a11y-meeting
11:39:04< API> 1. jhernandez will take a look to that
11:39:10< API> on spin 2 or spin 3
11:39:16< API> 2. other people can also test it
11:39:20< API> fine?
11:39:23 >>> joanie will do so in fedora 15
11:39:24< jhernandez> okç
11:39:26< joanie> this weekend
11:39:57 >>> clown will test the problem on the testing spin (as much as I can).
11:40:21< API> well, no time for miscellaneous time
11:40:23< API> meeting over