1 10:36 <@joanie> So.... Agenda is in the topic
   2 10:37 <@joanie> API had another obligation
   3 10:37 <@joanie> I put boring Administrivia first because my DayJob boss yesterday rescheduled our weekly one-on-one (just for this week) to 15:00 UTC.
   4 10:37 <@joanie> I hope to blow through the boring stuff quickly, so I've pre-typed and will C&P for the purpose of moving on. :-)
   5 10:37 <@joanie> 1. Need to update the GNOME 3 status page.
   6 10:37 < fer> haha, great
   7 10:37 < fer> :)
   8 10:37 <@joanie> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3
   9 10:37 <@joanie> Release Team pinged API. If you have a section on the GNOME 3 page, please update your status.
  10 10:38 <@joanie> And if you don't have any updates, I'd ask that you take the time to update the date of your section so that we know it's current. 
  11 10:38 <@joanie> Questions?
  12 10:38 < clown> good idea.
  13 10:38 < fer> no questions
  14 10:38 < fer> action item for all :)
  15 10:38 < clown> if I have updates for things other than my section, I'll update that too.
  16 10:38 <@joanie> So, Action Item for everyone: Update your status
  17 10:38 <@joanie> bingo fer
  18 10:38 <@joanie> clown: super thanks!!
  19 10:38  >>> fer needs a weekend at home to try to get gnome-mag working with gtk3
  20 10:39 <@joanie> 2. Q4's
  21 10:39  >>> clown just a weekend?
  22 10:39 <@joanie> Q4's are way overdue. (Including Orca's).
  23 10:39 < clown> :-)
  24 10:39 <@joanie> I think we're OK because there's no way that the Q4's will go out without a Foundation Board report or a Finance report and those do not appear here: https://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/QuarterlyReports/2010/Q4
  25 10:39 <@joanie> My excuse (and it is an excuse) is working hard on GNOME 3. Now that we're at Code Freeze.... I plan to write Orca's. And then to summarize what reports have been submitted.
  26 10:39 < fer> clown: just for the painting. Cursor tracking is another story :)
  27 10:39 <@joanie> Questions?
  28 10:39 < clown> joanie, Q4 for 2010?
  29 10:39 <@joanie> clown: Yeah.
  30 10:39 <@joanie> :-/
  31 10:40  >>> clown notes that almost time for Q1
  32 10:40 <@joanie> Yeah.
  33 10:40 <@joanie> :-/
  34 10:40 <@joanie> GNOME 3, DayJob, yadda yadda
  35 10:40 <@joanie> But the board and others haven't done theirs...
  36 10:40 < clown> indeed.
  37 10:40 <@joanie> So....
  38 10:40 <@joanie> Stormy used to stay on top of that
  39 10:40 <@joanie> Stormy is gone.
  40 10:40 <@joanie> Action Item for everyone who has not written Q4s: Write 'em. :-)
  41 10:41 <@joanie> Moving on
  42 10:41 <@joanie> 3. Can we do a 2.32.x+1 AT-SPI and ATK release?
  43 10:41 <@joanie> Fer sent this message to the Orca list: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2011-March/msg00188.html
  44 10:41 <@joanie> As I have subsequently responded, there are going to be distros not making the jump to AT-SPI2 this spring. Thus I personally think we want to see an AT-SPI1 and ATk1 release if possible. And then ping distros.
  45 10:41 ::: jhernandez [~jhernande@83.175.203.146] joined #a11y-meeting
  46 10:41 <@joanie> Thoughts?
  47 10:41  >>> clown reading
  48 10:41 < fer> we should do it
  49 10:42 < fer> will atk release be different?
  50 10:42 <@joanie> I dunno
  51 10:42 < fer> I mean, do we have atk gnome-2-32 branch and master for gnome-3?
  52 10:42 <@joanie> I didn't look at your patches
  53 10:42 < fer> let me check in a sec
  54 10:42 <@joanie> oh
  55 10:42 <@joanie> gnome-3 deprecates atk I think
  56 10:43 <@joanie> that's all in Mike's work
  57 10:43 <@joanie> I assume Li branched
  58 10:43 <@joanie> but he might not have
  59 10:43 < fer> we have gnome-2-30 and master
  60 10:43 < fer> so maybe putting it on gnome-2-30 would work
  61 10:43 < fer> or just creating a gnome-2-32 for a new release
  62 10:43 <@joanie> easy enough to change the version.
  63 10:43 < fer> the patch should be straight forward
  64 10:43 <@joanie> yup
  65 10:44 < fer> put me an action item to port the at-spi2 patch to at-spi1
  66 10:44 < fer> and we are done with this :)
  67 10:44 <@joanie> Super!!!!!
  68 10:44 <@joanie> Fer you rock
  69 10:44 <@joanie> Moving on
  70 10:44 <@joanie> 4. Are 'weekly reminders' still needed?
  71 10:44 <@joanie> As an experiment, I intentionally failed to send out the 'gentle reminder' message to the ml.
  72 10:44 <@joanie> Now that meetings are always at the same time, and most people who come are already in #a11y.... Is the reminder something that needs doing? If so, I'll continue. If not, I'll just ping the group in #a11y.
  73 10:44 <@joanie> thoughts?
  74 10:44 < fer> I think it's ok
  75 10:44 < clown> one thing, joanie...
  76 10:44  >>> tbsaunde fine with it
  77 10:45 <@joanie> To have it or to skip it fer ?
  78 10:45 <@joanie> clown: ?
  79 10:45 < fer> unless someone complain next week about he missed it because of not reminder
  80 10:45 < clown> last week I was "early" because of the switch to DST here.
  81 10:45 < fer> although we should send again next week, because europe daysaving change
  82 10:45 < fer> daylight saving even :)
  83 10:45 <@joanie> okay
  84 10:45 < aleiva> an automatic reminder would be good
  85 10:45 < clown> and, I think DST is different throughout the world, and over the next little while timezones will be updating.
  86 10:45 < clown> so, it might be useful to send out reminders for the next month, say.
  87 10:46 <@joanie> clown: Fair enough
  88 10:46 < clown> after that, everyone should be in the groove.
  89 10:46 < fer> yup
  90 10:46 <@joanie> although I will say that in the last meeting announcement (the one after the time switch)
  91 10:46 <@joanie> I did mention the time switch
  92 10:46 < clown> and, then do it all again next fall...
  93 10:46 < aleiva> what I mean is, newcomer or other projects should be notice about our meeting, I think is a good thing
  94 10:46 <@joanie> mind you I didn't say "And Canada"
  95 10:46 <@joanie> ;-)
  96 10:46 <@joanie> aleiva: Automatic on the list?
  97 10:47 < aleiva> joanie: something like that, like a calendar event
  98 10:47 < clown> yeah, never mind this massage chunk of geography just to your north... ;-)
  99 10:47 <@joanie> aleiva: Yeah we've talked about having a gnome calendar for a11y
 100 10:47 <@joanie> Ok so I think the conclusion is sounding like:
 101 10:47 < aleiva> joanie: that should do the trick
 102 10:47 <@joanie> 1. I need to keep doing them
 103 10:48 <@joanie> 2. I need to look into a calendar for a11y team
 104 10:48 <@joanie> Right?
 105 10:48 < aleiva> the more automatic the less effort from your side :-)
 106 10:48 < clown> +1
 107 10:48 < aleiva> but ok
 108 10:48 <@joanie> aleiva: Yay!
 109 10:48 < clown> +2
 110 10:48 < jhernandez> +1
 111 10:48  >>> fer has no opinion on this :)
 112 10:48 <@joanie> last boring item then
 113 10:48 <@joanie> Atk Hackfest update
 114 10:48 <@joanie>  I believe API and/or I have pinged everyone affected, but just in case: We do have hackfest money in our team budget. So we can sponsor a couple of people who need travel reimbursement.
 115 10:49 <@joanie> BUT, the conclusion is that it is *reimbursement*. In other words, if you need the sponsorship, you need to apply to the travel committee. AND you need to book your own hotel.
 116 10:49 <@joanie> We will not be asking the Foundation to book it like we did for Sevilla.
 117 10:49 <@joanie> Questions?
 118 10:49 < fer> that's right. I sent details to the Adobe guy that asked about it. And also asked API about igalia making invitation letters for people that need visa
 119 10:49 <@joanie> cool
 120 10:50 <@joanie> poor API is crazy-busy
 121 10:50 < fer> I should poke mario :)
 122 10:50 <@joanie> but if he can push that off onto colleagues....
 123 10:50 <@joanie> Mario is too, but slightly less on the crazy side I think. :-)
 124 10:50 <@joanie> Anyhoo
 125 10:50 <@joanie> done with boring stuff
 126 10:50 <@joanie> woohoo
 127 10:50 <@joanie> 2. GNOME 3 A11y Testing Distro Update
 128 10:51 <@joanie> jhernandez: the floor is yours my friend
 129 10:51 < jhernandez> ok, thx!
 130 10:51 < jhernandez> ;)
 131 10:51 < jhernandez> at this moment, we have a first spin
 132 10:51  >>> fer is happy about it including firefox 4, thanks jhernandez!
 133 10:52 < jhernandez> i think that spin could be a great beginning, now, after test the distro, I can make customizations we need
 134 10:52 < jhernandez> fer: ;)
 135 10:52 <@joanie> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/TestingDistro
 136 10:52 < jhernandez> at this moment i have a littñle
 137 10:53 < jhernandez> * a little TODO list
 138 10:53 < jhernandez> to customize the distro for our needs
 139 10:54 < jhernandez> There are basically three needs: Distro customizations, Automatic rpm builds, Automatic distro build
 140 10:55 < jhernandez> For the first, I need that you say to me these customizations, based on you special needs
 141 10:56  >>> joanie likes the idea of automatic rpm builds
 142 10:56 < jhernandez> so, I'll expose requeriments I know, and you should help to me to grow up this list
 143 10:57 < clown> would it be useful to add a preferences dialog for the gnome-shell magnifier?  that dialog would not be part of any rpm
 144 10:57 < jhernandez> joanie, this is inline with "we're always on the bleeding edge"
 145 10:57 < jhernandez> ;)
 146 10:57 <@joanie> :-)
 147 10:57 <@joanie> awesome
 148 10:57 < jhernandez> clown, mmm, what preferences are you talking about?
 149 10:58 < clown> the ones in the gsettings-desktop-schemas module.
 150 10:58 < jhernandez> clown, ok
 151 10:58 < clown> the settings are there, but there is no way for a user to configure them.
 152 10:59 < clown> well...
 153 10:59 < jhernandez> clown, i'll give a look to this
 154 10:59 < clown> unless the user is familiar with gsettings and knows how to change them.
 155 10:59 < clown> a dialog would make that eaier.
 156 10:59 < clown> "easier"
 157 10:59 < clown> just a thought...
 158 11:00 < jhernandez> so, I'll start by editting the wiki with these customizations list, and I'll poke you for growin it up
 159 11:00 < jhernandez> ok?
 160 11:00 <@joanie> sounds good to me
 161 11:00 <@joanie> thanks jhernandez!
 162 11:00 < jhernandez> clown, i'll give a look, takes sense
 163 11:00 < jhernandez> ;)
 164 11:00 < jhernandez> ok joanie
 165 11:00 <@joanie> ok == you're done jhernandez?
 166 11:00 < clown> jhernandez, fyi:  there are a couple of such dialogs as patches, currently.
 167 11:01 < jhernandez> so, at this moment I don't have more things to talk about, but if you have doubts, just shoot it!
 168 11:01 < clown> we can talk about it later.
 169 11:01 < jhernandez> ok clown
 170 11:01 < jhernandez> ;)
 171 11:01 < clown> :-)
 172 11:01 < jhernandez> joanie, yes i'm done!
 173 11:01 <@joanie> btw guys, I have my re-scheduled DayJob one-on-one now. My boss is notorious for saying "call back later" so I might be right back, but....
 174 11:01 <@joanie> The last topic is GNOME 3 Updates
 175 11:02 <@joanie> assuming my boss doesn't say 'call back later'
 176 11:02  >>> clown notes that that isn't a single topic...
 177 11:02 <@joanie> if someone could take the gavel from me
 178 11:02 <@joanie> and aleiva can say anything about Orca that needs saying
 179 11:02 <@joanie> it would be awesome
 180 11:02 < aleiva> yup
 181 11:02  >>> joanie dials her agency
 182 11:02 ::: joanie is now known as joanie_mtg
 183 11:02  >>> fer has to run also in 10 mins
 184 11:03 < aleiva> so GNOME3 Updates
 185 11:03 < aleiva> sadly I don't have any news about
 186 11:03 < aleiva> someone?
 187 11:03 ::: joanie_mtg is now known as joanie
 188 11:03  >>> joanie laughs
 189 11:03 <@joanie> boss is sick
 190 11:03 < aleiva> awesome
 191 11:03 < jhernandez> cool!
 192 11:03 < clown> hi joanie!  welcom back! ;-)
 193 11:03  >>> aleiva pass the gavel to joanie and back to coffe
 194 11:03 <@joanie> crazy DayJob
 195 11:03 < fer> I have a point regarding GNOME 3.2
 196 11:04 <@joanie> fer: go for it
 197 11:04 < fer> so we probably send what we want to do for it on d-d-l
 198 11:04 < fer> the thing that scares me more is the Caribou vs. gnome-shell own OnScreenKeyboard thing
 199 11:05 <@joanie> Well, I think on that front, one option is for Caribou to look more gnome-shell-like
 200 11:06 <@joanie> I hope to figure out (or be told) what they expect Orca's gui to look like
 201 11:06 < clown> caribou uses gtk?  I assume g-s-osk uses St?
 202 11:06 <@joanie> so that we can make our screen reader for users who are blind visually appealing to the design team.
 203 11:07 < fer> hahaha
 204 11:07 < aleiva> xD
 205 11:07 < fer> we need a bot to store great quotes like that :)
 206 11:07 <@joanie> (sorry, I really do need to get my snark gene surgically removed)
 207 11:08 < Pendulum> :)
 208 11:08 < aleiva> anyway I think that the gs team want to embed the setting into their configuration panel
 209 11:08 < aleiva> or something like that
 210 11:08 <@joanie> aleiva: and the problem with that is that they don't want all the settings we have
 211 11:08 < aleiva> but we have tons of settings... so
 212 11:08 <@joanie> so I think we will need to find a way to hide stuff
 213 11:08 <@joanie> or have an advanced options
 214 11:08 <@joanie> or something
 215 11:08 <@joanie> the gui work we're doing should make it possible to easily use ST
 216 11:09 <@joanie> and to be honest, ST should be our "proof of concept" rather than Qt. Qt just works it seems and should be fully implemented in our work. 
 217 11:09 <@joanie> But that's a topic for Orca team meeting.
 218 11:09 <@joanie> So back to Caribou
 219 11:09 <@joanie> guys what should we do?
 220 11:10 <@joanie> Eitan (eeejay) is the maintainer
 221 11:10 < fer> poke Eitan to start discussion?
 222 11:10 <@joanie> we could do that
 223 11:10 <@joanie> fer are you volunteering? Or should API and/or I poke him?
 224 11:10 <@joanie> :-)
 225 11:11 < fer> I can
 226 11:11 <@joanie> cool Action Item is yours fer 
 227 11:11 < aleiva> fer action item
 228 11:11  >>> joanie and API are behind on our existing AI's
 229 11:11 < aleiva> sorry, fer action man
 230 11:11 < fer> haha
 231 11:11 <@joanie> lol
 232 11:12 <@joanie> fer, fer the action man. If he can't do it, no one can!
 233 11:12  >>> joanie is a poet
 234 11:12 <@joanie> Ok, so other GNOME 3ish things?
 235 11:12 < aleiva> Accerciser is broken
 236 11:12 < fer> is it?
 237 11:13 <@joanie> in at-spi1 or 2?
 238 11:13 < aleiva> I think so
 239 11:13 < aleiva> 2
 240 11:13 < aleiva> try to compile it with jhbuild
 241 11:13  >>> fer didn't update his build in 1 week
 242 11:13 <@joanie> you have the latest at-spi2?
 243 11:13 < aleiva> no because also fails to compile in my system but I'm sure that its a local problem
 244 11:13 < aleiva> or maybe not
 245 11:13 < fer> I can check while reviewing past action items :)
 246 11:13 < aleiva> but mario and me are suffering Accerciser breakage
 247 11:14 <@joanie> aleiva: API said at-spi2 wasn't working in jhbuild
 248 11:14 < aleiva> joanie: in the configuration phase?
 249 11:14 <@joanie> I mentioned that to elluca
 250 11:14  >>> joanie looks
 251 11:14 <@joanie> I am just a minion
 252 11:14 <@joanie> :-P
 253 11:14 < aleiva> :-P
 254 11:14 < fer> also at-spi2 registry is starting in a different way IIRC
 255 11:14 <@joanie> Trying this:
 256 11:14 <@joanie> jbuild build at-spi2-atk
 257 11:14 <@joanie> This doesn't compile at-spi2-core, so it seems that the jbuild
 258 11:14 <@joanie> moduleset are broken here, although probably this can be solved with
 259 11:14 <@joanie> just a bug.
 260 11:15 <@joanie> (is what API said)
 261 11:15 < aleiva> so the final result is, in hard code freeze at-spi2-atk and Accerciser are broken
 262 11:15 <@joanie> :-(
 263 11:15 < fer> but build fixes are ok
 264 11:15 <@joanie> So I guess we need to do two things
 265 11:15 < fer> we don't need review/approval for that
 266 11:15 <@joanie> 1. Figure out what the f is up
 267 11:15 <@joanie> fer: I think we need to ask
 268 11:15 <@joanie> but it gets blessed immediately
 269 11:16 <@joanie> 2. Ping whoever we need to (Mike or Brian) to fix whatever needs fixing
 270 11:16 < fer> so who is getting the build sheriff star this evening ?
 271 11:16 <@joanie> Hah!
 272 11:16  >>> aleiva looks to jhernandez 
 273 11:16  >>> jhernandez looks to the floor .....
 274 11:16 < jhernandez> xDDDD
 275 11:16 < jhernandez> just a joke!
 276 11:17 < jhernandez> :P
 277 11:17  >>> joanie looks up from the floor back at jhernandez 
 278 11:17 < aleiva> I think is clear
 279 11:17 <@joanie> what is?
 280 11:18 < aleiva> who is (shoot) the sheriff
 281 11:18 <@joanie> lol
 282 11:18 < jhernandez> of course, I'm here for contribute a11y ;)
 283 11:18 < aleiva> jhernandez: can you try to build it and report it?
 284 11:18 <@joanie> jhernandez: do you have time to see what the story is on this (Accerciser and at-spi2)?
 285 11:18 < jhernandez> for me it's not a prob
 286 11:18 <@joanie> woohoo!
 287 11:18 <@joanie> jhernandez: you are awesome
 288 11:18 < jhernandez> yes, of course, I can do that
 289 11:19  >>> joanie notes (yet again) how lucky we are to have the Spanish guys
 290 11:19 < jhernandez> ;)
 291 11:21 <@joanie> okay, so other GNOME 3 stuff?
 292 11:22 <@joanie> If not, API's "Misc Time"
 293 11:22 <@joanie> floor is open for whatever
 294 11:22  >>> joanie sits on it
 295 11:24 < fer> this is not the same without API
 296 11:24 < jhernandez> yes
 297 11:24 <@joanie> yeah, but as you will recall from two meetings ago, API killed Misc Time
 298 11:24 < aleiva> fer: absolutely we need a serious man
 299 11:24 < clown> not me...
 300 11:24 < aleiva> clown: sure not
 301 11:24 < jhernandez> LOL 
 302 11:24 <@joanie> Do I lose because of gender or seriousosity?
 303 11:25 <@joanie> (I know. Both)
 304 11:25 < aleiva> :-P
 305 11:25 < clown> who said you lose?
 306 11:25 <@joanie> < aleiva> fer: absolutely we need a serious man
 307 11:25 <@joanie> clown: Ale did
 308 11:25  >>> joanie pouts
 309 11:25 < aleiva> joanie: nope
 310 11:26 < aleiva> that's not what I mean
 311 11:26 < aleiva> anyway, go on
 312 11:26  >>> joanie sits quietly while aleiva tries to dig himself out
 313 11:26 <@joanie> :-P
 314 11:26 <@joanie> I've got nothing more myself
 315 11:26  >>> clown hands aleiva a shovel.
 316 11:26 <@joanie> so if no one else does
 317 11:26 < fer> ok, now I have to run
 318 11:26 < fer> see you guys!
 319 11:26 <@joanie> fer: k thanks for everything!
 320 11:27 < clown> bye fer.
 321 11:27 < aleiva> fer: thanks dude!
 322 11:27 < clown> good luck this weekend...
 323 11:27 <@joanie> so... Meeting adjourned?
 324 11:27  >>> joanie lifts gavel
 325 11:27  >>> joanie prepares to bang it
 326 11:27 < clown> going once, ...
 327 11:27  >>> joanie bangs it
 328 11:27 ::: fer [~fer@62.228.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] quit [Saliendo]
 329 11:28 <@joanie> too late
 330 11:28 <@joanie> lol
 331 11:28 <@joanie> meeting adjourned 
 332 11:28 <@joanie> thanks for coming y'all!
 333 11:28  >>> clown waves goodbye!
 334 11:28 < aleiva> bye guys
 335 11:28 ::: aleiva [~gloob@petersburgo.euler.es] left #a11y-meeting []
 336 11:28 < Pendulum> thanks for running the meeting!
 337 11:28 < jhernandez> bye all!