1 (07:11:53) API: so lets start
   2 (07:12:05) API: argh
   3 (07:12:10) API: I can set the topic
   4 (07:12:16) API: nobody is the channel operator?
   5 (07:12:24) joanie: tbsaunde: was here when I got here
   6 (07:12:28) API: well, whatever
   7 (07:12:29) joanie: and he didn't have ops
   8 (07:12:33) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
   9 (07:12:33) ***tbsaunde never left
  10 (07:12:33) ***joanie shrugs
  11 (07:12:52) API: GNOME 3 
  12 (07:13:09) API: well, we already contacted
  13 (07:13:13) API: contact==send mail
  14 (07:13:17) API: to those maintainers
  15 (07:13:29) API: some answers, no wiki edit
  16 (07:13:42) joanie: I did put Brian Cameron's stuff on the wiki
  17 (07:13:47) API: so we will wait for the rest of the answers and edit the wiki with that
  18 (07:13:51) API: ah, ok, thanks
  19 (07:13:54) joanie: I wasn't quite sure what to do with the others
  20 (07:14:13) API: so this point, at least related to the update 
  21 (07:14:16) joanie: To be honest, I didn't quite "get" the Dasher update
  22 (07:14:17) API: is over
  23 (07:14:28) API: anything else about GNOME3
  24 (07:14:33) joanie: I think we need to reply to the release team
  25 (07:14:34) API: well, yes was somewhat diffuse
  26 (07:14:38) API: ah, yes
  27 (07:14:46) joanie: and that it's okay that our response is that people are still updating
  28 (07:14:50) API: but lets wait for the other poeple
  29 (07:14:52) API: people
  30 (07:14:54) joanie: but we can give them a better idea
  31 (07:14:58) API: aha
  32 (07:15:02) joanie: beyond that I have thoughts....
  33 (07:15:03) joanie: :-)
  34 (07:15:12) joanie: some of which is something you observed privately
  35 (07:15:19) joanie: namely the page needs more cleanup
  36 (07:15:30) joanie: I was looking at it last night and my eyes glazed over
  37 (07:15:42) API: yes, after the update we will require a cleaning
  38 (07:15:42) joanie: If my eyes glazed over, the RT eyes will glaze over
  39 (07:15:48) API: to understan whats going on
  40 (07:15:51) ***joanie nods
  41 (07:16:20) API: anything else about this GNOME 3 item?
  42 (07:16:26) joanie: Well....
  43 (07:16:40) joanie: what's the status of "issues of the day"?
  44 (07:16:56) joanie: mgorse: fixed the biggest one impacting Orca and Accerciser, right?
  45 (07:17:06) API: "issues of the day"?
  46 (07:17:15) joanie: what's borked in AT-SPI2
  47 (07:17:16) joanie: ?
  48 (07:17:25) joanie: in terms of Orca and Accerciser?
  49 (07:18:06) API: well, it is working for me these days
  50 (07:18:24) API: mgorse made a quick at-spi2 release
  51 (07:18:31) API: to include to fix to that accerciser crash
  52 (07:19:17) mgorse: ie, 1.91.6.1
  53 (07:19:27) joanie: okay
  54 (07:19:35) joanie: so today things are "stable enough"?
  55 (07:19:52) joanie: knowing that (at least for Orca) we're working on GNOME 3?
  56 (07:20:00) API:well, I guess so
  57 (07:20:00) API:recently frederic crozat made a 
  58 (07:20:00) API:fedora release
  59 (07:21:00) API:I think that with the intention of test GNOME 3.0
  60 (07:21:00) API:and mclasen
  61 (07:22:00) API:write a post a bout testing gnome 3:
  62 (07:22:00) API:http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/mclasen/2011/02/03/testing-gnome-3/
  63 (07:22:00) API:"he goal of these events is to test as much as possible of the functionality of GNOME 3 to ensure that it works 
  64              correctly and provides the necessary basic features for a day-to-day usable desktop. "
  65 (07:22:00) API:soo
  66 (07:23:10) API: one action would be try to join this day
  67 (07:23:15) joanie: sorry was discoed
  68 (07:23:16) API: someone
  69 (07:23:38) API: joanie you need the last part of the meeting?
  70 (07:23:49) joanie: please
  71 (07:24:32) API: done
  72 (07:24:40) joanie: thanks
  73 (07:25:18) API: AFAIK there isn't any other distribution with a similar idea
  74 (07:25:32) API: so, what do you think?
  75 (07:25:34) joanie: (maybe they test every day)
  76 (07:26:54) API: sorry, what do you mean?
  77 (07:27:01) joanie: I was being snarky
  78 (07:27:10) ***joanie behaves
  79 (07:27:26) mode (+o joanie ) by drc
  80 (07:27:37) mode (+o API ) by joanie
  81 (07:28:00) API: so opinions?
  82 (07:29:05) joanie has changed the topic to: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
  83 (07:29:20) joanie: No one else has an opinion either I guess?
  84 (07:30:26) API: well, so lets set the action:
  85 (07:30:32) API: "it would be good to test
  86 (07:30:44) API: the stability of a GNOME 3.0 release
  87 (07:30:56) API: test day from fedora seems a good test"
  88 (07:31:00) API: and lets move
  89 (07:31:05) ***joanie nods
  90 (07:31:08) API: 2. Unity 
  91 (07:31:15) API: not too much to add
  92 (07:31:21) API: still a lot of work remaining
  93 (07:31:32) API: 3. Atk Hackfest 
  94 (07:31:33) joanie: I have a question....
  95 (07:31:35) joanie: hold on
  96 (07:31:36) API: ups
  97 (07:31:36) joanie: lol
  98 (07:31:37) API: ok,
  99 (07:31:44) API: <API> 2. Unity 
 100 (07:31:55) joanie: So because we care about Orca users downstream....
 101 (07:32:09) joanie: I set up a system and attempted to build nux and unity
 102 (07:32:14) joanie: and succeeded with the former
 103 (07:32:18) joanie: but not the latter
 104 (07:32:33) joanie: is there an easy way for a11y folks to get involved in testing?
 105 (07:32:41) API: unity is not orca testable right now
 106 (07:32:46) API: not orca testable at all
 107 (07:32:49) joanie: at all.
 108 (07:32:50) joanie: okay
 109 (07:33:01) joanie: I didn't know it was that early still
 110 (07:33:07) API: anyway, for the future
 111 (07:33:11) API: so used this?
 112 (07:33:14) API: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuideFromSource
 113 (07:33:23) joanie: I assume that's what I used
 114 (07:33:33) ***joanie looks
 115 (07:33:37) joanie: Yeah
 116 (07:33:49) joanie: had some library issue with GLUT
 117 (07:34:19) API: glut?
 118 (07:34:36) API: well, I guess that this doesn't fit here
 119 (07:34:47) joanie: nope
 120 (07:34:47) API: lets talk about unity details in other moment
 121 (07:34:49) API: after all
 122 (07:34:56) API: <API> unity is not orca testable right now
 123 (07:35:01) API: anything else about unity?
 124 (07:35:03) joanie: my interest was that there was a way for us to test
 125 (07:35:04) joanie: nope
 126 (07:35:45) aleiva [~gloob@petersburgo.euler.es] entered the room.
 127 (07:36:00) API: no, not testable at this moment
 128 (07:36:08) API: <API> not too much to add
 129 (07:36:09) API: <API><API> not too much to add
 130 (07:36:09) API: <API> still a lot of work remaining still a lot of work remaining
 131 (07:36:18) API: ups, double c&p
 132 (07:36:28) aleiva: normally is true
 133 (07:36:37) aleiva: and good morning, folks
 134 (07:36:43) joanie: normally?
 135 (07:36:48) API: good morning
 136 (07:36:50) joanie: and good morning to you :-)
 137 (07:36:59) aleiva: still a lot of work remaining^2 <- joanie 
 138 (07:37:10) API: well, lets move to next point
 139 (07:37:18) API: 3. Atk Hackfest 
 140 (07:37:45) API: well, dates set
 141 (07:37:58) API: we are already looking for local funds
 142 (07:38:13) API: it would be good if people willing to go 
 143 (07:38:20) joanie: I've updated the page
 144 (07:38:25) API: start to use the travel committee thing
 145 (07:38:31) joanie: You need to send an announcement to the list
 146 (07:38:40) joanie: after you look over the page
 147 (07:39:05) API: announcement to the list? about the official date?
 148 (07:39:09) joanie: yeah
 149 (07:39:14) joanie: you said you would do that
 150 (07:39:18) joanie: previous meeting
 151 (07:39:36) joanie: and more than the date, really
 152 (07:39:57) joanie: It would probably be good to have an official "hey we're having a hackfest" announcement
 153 (07:40:02) joanie: e.g. for the KDE folks
 154 (07:40:14) joanie: and others who probably should be there
 155 (07:40:25) API: KDE folks?
 156 (07:40:34) API: well, this is a atk/at-spi2 hackfest
 157 (07:40:45) API: and although KDE have plans to use at-spi2
 158 (07:40:50) API: this is not the case for atk
 159 (07:41:07) joanie: and jpwhiting (and fregl?) are implementing at-spi2
 160 (07:41:15) API: unless your plan is convince them to use atk
 161 (07:41:17) joanie: but part of the hackfest is at-spi2
 162 (07:41:19) joanie: lol
 163 (07:41:21) joanie: nah
 164 (07:41:41) joanie: did we not also want to get Atk and AT-SPI more aligned?
 165 (07:43:08) API: ok, if qt/kde people are interested on the hackfest ude the at-spi2 part not problem
 166 (07:43:17) API: so on the announcement I should include kde ml?
 167 (07:43:24) joanie: no
 168 (07:43:41) joanie: I would just announce it on either g-a-l or g-a-d
 169 (07:44:15) joanie: I mean, really, I don't think we've ever actually *officially* announced it
 170 (07:44:19) joanie: we came up with it
 171 (07:44:29) joanie: and discussed it in team meeting
 172 (07:44:35) joanie: and semi-privately
 173 (07:44:47) joanie: so a proper announcement is in order
 174 (07:44:53) joanie: it can be a small one
 175 (07:44:54) joanie: :-)
 176 (07:46:28) API: ok
 177 (07:46:29) API: so
 178 (07:46:33) API: lets summarize
 179 (07:46:38) API: action1: announcement (me)
 180 (07:46:55) API: action2: contact travel committee (people requiring that)
 181 (07:47:12) joanie: action 3: "homework"
 182 (07:47:13) API: action3: keep searching funding (we already contacted local LUGs)
 183 (07:47:18) joanie: oops
 184 (07:47:24) API: yeah
 185 (07:47:33) API: action X: homework, keep 
 186 (07:47:38) API: creating bugs for the metabug
 187 (07:47:42) API: and think about them
 188 (07:48:01) API: so, lets move then
 189 (07:48:07) API: 4. Donations and fundraising 
 190 (07:48:11) API: well, joanie 
 191 (07:48:14) API: you added this point
 192 (07:48:16) joanie: yeah
 193 (07:48:18) API: soo
 194 (07:48:18) joanie: :-)
 195 (07:48:24) joanie: soooo....
 196 (07:48:37) joanie: every once in a while people want to donate
 197 (07:48:49) joanie: and aleiva and I are waiting for acceptance into SFC
 198 (07:48:52) joanie: in the meantime....
 199 (07:49:05) joanie: apparently we have some sort of paypal account for a11y donations
 200 (07:49:17) joanie: but we (to my knowledge) don't have any page outlining this stuff
 201 (07:49:30) joanie: so when people say, "how do I donate to Orca?"
 202 (07:49:32) joanie: and I answer them
 203 (07:49:37) joanie: Bryen then corrects me
 204 (07:49:39) joanie: ;-)
 205 (07:50:00) joanie: I've asked him for a page and ways to clearly point people to this magical account
 206 (07:50:03) joanie: and gotten no response
 207 (07:50:14) joanie: so I'm willing to create the page if there are no objections
 208 (07:50:15) API: for a page where?
 209 (07:50:20) joanie: gnome a11y wiki
 210 (07:50:34) API: and who controls that paypal account?
 211 (07:50:39) joanie: damned if I know
 212 (07:50:42) joanie: that's one of my questions
 213 (07:50:44) joanie: :-)
 214 (07:50:46) API: is a gnome foundation paypal account?
 215 (07:50:52) joanie: I assume so
 216 (07:51:03) joanie: we need to look into it
 217 (07:51:17) joanie: basically, that agenda item is there because we need to get our collective acts together
 218 (07:51:18) API: well, action: answer all the unanswered questions ;) 
 219 (07:51:23) joanie: yeah
 220 (07:51:28) joanie: and I'll take the lead on that
 221 (07:51:32) joanie: if no one else wants it
 222 (07:52:15) joanie: Okay, I'm guessing it's mine :-)
 223 (07:52:32) API: ok, anything else about this point?
 224 (07:52:38) joanie: any objections to a page?
 225 (07:52:43) joanie: once I have the answers?
 226 (07:53:35) API: well, if there are that account
 227 (07:53:44) API: and you could use it
 228 (07:53:47) API: well you
 229 (07:53:55) API: I don't remember
 230 (07:53:58) joanie: ?
 231 (07:54:03) API: if it is a orca or a gnome-a11y account
 232 (07:54:07) joanie: gnome-a11y
 233 (07:54:15) API: ok, so lets rephrase
 234 (07:54:16) joanie: I'm looking at the team
 235 (07:54:28) API: if there is that account, and can be used to fund gnome a11y
 236 (07:54:33) API: it would be good to
 237 (07:54:40) API: use that
 238 (07:54:50) API: and for that people should know that exist
 239 (07:54:55) joanie: :-)
 240 (07:55:02) API: well, 5 minutes to the end
 241 (07:55:06) API: so lets summarize
 242 (07:55:15) API: skipping 5 (I guess no time=
 243 (07:55:16) API: )
 244 (07:55:20) API: 6. Q4 reports are due 
 245 (07:55:23) API: in summary
 246 (07:55:35) API: people we need to fill that (me included)
 247 (07:55:39) joanie: me too
 248 (07:55:55) API: action: send another gently reminder
 249 (07:55:59) joanie: I hope to write mine later today. For real this time.
 250 (07:56:05) API: action2: do my homework
 251 (07:56:06) joanie: I'll ping others.
 252 (07:56:11) API: 4 minutes till the end
 253 (07:56:11) API: so
 254 (07:56:15) API: miscellaneous time
 255 (07:56:31) ***joanie thinks there should be a miscellaneous time song
 256 (07:56:44) aleiva: GSOC?
 257 (07:57:14) aleiva: I'm thinking that would be good to define some tasks for google summer of code
 258 (07:57:17) aleiva: around a11y
 259 (07:57:39) API: aleiva was GSOC announced?
 260 (07:57:54) API: and I guess that this is related to
 261 (07:57:57) API: 5. Student contributors 
 262 (07:58:00) joanie: :-)
 263 (07:58:12) aleiva: no idea of timeline, but thinking on this sooner than later is a good thing (TM)
 264 (07:58:12) API: as they are also waiting for tasks
 265 (07:58:24) API: uhu, we have a volunteer 
 266 (07:58:31) joanie: uhu?
 267 (07:58:57) aleiva: I can manage this
 268 (07:59:49) joanie: so this year, I am not sure if we are ready for GSOC
 269 (07:59:55) API: in what sense?
 270 (07:59:58) joanie: but I would like us to start doing it the following year
 271 (08:00:12) joanie: in what sense ready? or managing?
 272 (08:00:48) aleiva: we can define some goals for students
 273 (08:00:55) aleiva: we can use that goals later for GSOC
 274 (08:01:02) aleiva: and apply to GSOC as part of GNOME
 275 (08:01:04) API: why you say that we are not ready for GSOC?
 276 (08:01:22) joanie: because we have too much to do between now and this summer
 277 (08:01:24) aleiva: probably available time
 278 (08:01:25) joanie: GNOME 3
 279 (08:01:28) joanie: hackfest
 280 (08:01:31) joanie: etc.
 281 (08:01:47) joanie: What I would like to do after that -- rather what I PLAN to do after that
 282 (08:01:58) joanie: is work with Heidi and her students since I'm local
 283 (08:02:03) joanie: and should have more time
 284 (08:02:10) joanie: now that I'm not the only Orca maintainer :-)
 285 (08:02:25) joanie: I'd like to get other modules involved
 286 (08:02:42) joanie: and the sorts of stuff we do with Heidi and WNEC would also make good sense as GSOC
 287 (08:02:48) joanie: and other university programs
 288 (08:03:03) API: so you are proposing a order
 289 (08:03:13) API: 1. finish gnome3 core stuff
 290 (08:03:20) API: 2. define work for students
 291 (08:03:29) API: 3. use that work for next year gsoc
 292 (08:03:30) API: ?
 293 (08:03:33) joanie: 1a. finish the hackfest stuff
 294 (08:03:50) joanie: Yeah, essentially
 295 (08:03:53) joanie: I am proposing that I take over "student outreach"
 296 (08:04:01) joanie: before when I was asked I could not do it
 297 (08:04:11) joanie: because I had inherited Orca leadership
 298 (08:04:14) joanie: on top of a day job
 299 (08:04:19) joanie: now that we have aleiva
 300 (08:04:24) joanie: and things are settling down
 301 (08:04:44) joanie: University training stuff is something I am better equipped to coordinate
 302 (08:04:52) joanie: and I'm willing to do so
 303 (08:05:35) aleiva: well, I was talking about the relationship of gnome-a11y and GSOC globally
 304 (08:05:39) API: well, aleiva opinion?
 305 (08:05:42) aleiva: sure we can provide some tasks to do
 306 (08:05:44) aleiva: and
 307 (08:06:09) aleiva: I hope that gsoc-students won't need many time to drive them to the goals
 308 (08:06:12) aleiva: they can pass or fail too
 309 (08:06:30) joanie: aleiva: You cannot just say here's a task have fun
 310 (08:06:40) joanie: it's an investment of time
 311 (08:06:51) joanie: and we know how much time you have ;-)
 312 (08:06:54) aleiva: well, we have meetings
 313 (08:07:10) aleiva: we have mail lists
 314 (08:07:15) aleiva: we have irc
 315 (08:07:28) aleiva: something to think
 316 (08:07:28) API: aleiva, so you are proposing not coming to meetings and helping that students? ;)
 317 (08:07:46) joanie: lol
 318 (08:07:49) aleiva: API: interesting reasoning
 319 (08:08:06) aleiva: API: I'm proposing the gnome-a11y as a whole
 320 (08:08:14) aleiva: I'm not only talking about Orca
 321 (08:08:21) joanie: aleiva: I wasn't either
 322 (08:08:27) joanie: (talking just about Orca)
 323 (08:08:57) joanie: If I were just talking about Orca, there would not be a "student contributors" topic on the full team agenda ;-)
 324 (08:09:10) joanie: instead, I would raise it at an Orca team meeting
 325 (08:09:15) aleiva: so, reformulating
 326 (08:09:36) aleiva: think about if we have enough time to provide some tasks via GSOC to potential students
 327 (08:09:48) joanie: I think we will NEXT summer
 328 (08:09:52) joanie: not this summer
 329 (08:11:12) API: well, 10 minutes over time
 330 (08:11:24) API: although it seems that there isn't a conclusion
 331 (08:11:30) ***joanie laughs
 332 (08:11:34) joanie: I have one
 333 (08:11:37) API: but could you give a partial conclusion?
 334 (08:11:58) joanie: My conclusion is that we (full GNOME a11y team)
 335 (08:12:08) joanie: should try to engage student contributors
 336 (08:12:10) joanie: WNEC
 337 (08:12:12) joanie: GSOC
 338 (08:12:13) joanie: more
 339 (08:12:22) joanie: I am volunteering to coordinate this
 340 (08:12:30) joanie: I am suggesting we start AFTER this summer
 341 (08:12:35) joanie: fall with WNEC
 342 (08:12:41) joanie: summer 2012 for GSOC
 343 (08:12:54) aleiva: fall 2011?
 344 (08:12:57) joanie: yes
 345 (08:13:15) joanie: aleiva: September I will be working with Heidi
 346 (08:13:24) aleiva: well that's ok for me, more if you'?re going to manage this :-)
 347 (08:13:38) joanie: aleiva: You're not off the hook. I'll need your help ;-)
 348 (08:13:46) joanie: But the broader effort needs management
 349 (08:13:53) aleiva: I don't why I suggest things :-D
 350 (08:14:01) aleiva: I don't know*
 351 (08:14:02) joanie: huh?
 352 (08:14:09) joanie: me neither :-P
 353 (08:14:20) joanie: aleiva: It's a good idea
 354 (08:14:25) joanie: I just think we need to be ready for it
 355 (08:14:38) aleiva: let's start in fall after satbilization of orca codebase
 356 (08:14:41) joanie: and we (full gnome a11y team) will not be ready this summer I'm afraid
 357 (08:14:46) ***joanie nods
 358 (08:15:03) aleiva: probably never, but we need to test sooner or later
 359 (08:15:19) joanie: aleiva: We'll be "good enough" come fall
 360 (08:15:33) joanie: and hopefully OCRFeeder will also continue to be an option for students
 361 (08:15:35) aleiva: ok, good for me
 362 (08:15:47) joanie: and anything else we come up with in gnome a11y
 363 (08:16:20) API: so, can we conclude that this was a conclusion of miscellaneous time?
 364 (08:16:41) aleiva: API: yup
 365 (08:16:54) API: ok, item finished
 366 (08:16:55) joanie: we still need a song
 367 (08:16:59) API: 15 minutes over time
 368 (08:17:04) API: meeting over
 369 (08:17:05) joanie: sorry
 370 (08:17:10) aleiva: thanks guys
 371 (08:17:11) API: thanks all people