(07:11:53) API: so lets start
(07:12:05) API: argh
(07:12:10) API: I can set the topic
(07:12:16) API: nobody is the channel operator?
(07:12:24) joanie: tbsaunde: was here when I got here
(07:12:28) API: well, whatever
(07:12:29) joanie: and he didn't have ops
(07:12:33) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
(07:12:33) ***tbsaunde never left
(07:12:33) ***joanie shrugs
(07:12:52) API: GNOME 3 
(07:13:09) API: well, we already contacted
(07:13:13) API: contact==send mail
(07:13:17) API: to those maintainers
(07:13:29) API: some answers, no wiki edit
(07:13:42) joanie: I did put Brian Cameron's stuff on the wiki
(07:13:47) API: so we will wait for the rest of the answers and edit the wiki with that
(07:13:51) API: ah, ok, thanks
(07:13:54) joanie: I wasn't quite sure what to do with the others
(07:14:13) API: so this point, at least related to the update 
(07:14:16) joanie: To be honest, I didn't quite "get" the Dasher update
(07:14:17) API: is over
(07:14:28) API: anything else about GNOME3
(07:14:33) joanie: I think we need to reply to the release team
(07:14:34) API: well, yes was somewhat diffuse
(07:14:38) API: ah, yes
(07:14:46) joanie: and that it's okay that our response is that people are still updating
(07:14:50) API: but lets wait for the other poeple
(07:14:52) API: people
(07:14:54) joanie: but we can give them a better idea
(07:14:58) API: aha
(07:15:02) joanie: beyond that I have thoughts....
(07:15:03) joanie: :-)
(07:15:12) joanie: some of which is something you observed privately
(07:15:19) joanie: namely the page needs more cleanup
(07:15:30) joanie: I was looking at it last night and my eyes glazed over
(07:15:42) API: yes, after the update we will require a cleaning
(07:15:42) joanie: If my eyes glazed over, the RT eyes will glaze over
(07:15:48) API: to understan whats going on
(07:15:51) ***joanie nods
(07:16:20) API: anything else about this GNOME 3 item?
(07:16:26) joanie: Well....
(07:16:40) joanie: what's the status of "issues of the day"?
(07:16:56) joanie: mgorse: fixed the biggest one impacting Orca and Accerciser, right?
(07:17:06) API: "issues of the day"?
(07:17:15) joanie: what's borked in AT-SPI2
(07:17:16) joanie: ?
(07:17:25) joanie: in terms of Orca and Accerciser?
(07:18:06) API: well, it is working for me these days
(07:18:24) API: mgorse made a quick at-spi2 release
(07:18:31) API: to include to fix to that accerciser crash
(07:19:17) mgorse: ie, 1.91.6.1
(07:19:27) joanie: okay
(07:19:35) joanie: so today things are "stable enough"?
(07:19:52) joanie: knowing that (at least for Orca) we're working on GNOME 3?
(07:20:00) API:well, I guess so
(07:20:00) API:recently frederic crozat made a 
(07:20:00) API:fedora release
(07:21:00) API:I think that with the intention of test GNOME 3.0
(07:21:00) API:and mclasen
(07:22:00) API:write a post a bout testing gnome 3:
(07:22:00) API:http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/mclasen/2011/02/03/testing-gnome-3/
(07:22:00) API:"he goal of these events is to test as much as possible of the functionality of GNOME 3 to ensure that it works 
             correctly and provides the necessary basic features for a day-to-day usable desktop. "
(07:22:00) API:soo
(07:23:10) API: one action would be try to join this day
(07:23:15) joanie: sorry was discoed
(07:23:16) API: someone
(07:23:38) API: joanie you need the last part of the meeting?
(07:23:49) joanie: please
(07:24:32) API: done
(07:24:40) joanie: thanks
(07:25:18) API: AFAIK there isn't any other distribution with a similar idea
(07:25:32) API: so, what do you think?
(07:25:34) joanie: (maybe they test every day)
(07:26:54) API: sorry, what do you mean?
(07:27:01) joanie: I was being snarky
(07:27:10) ***joanie behaves
(07:27:26) mode (+o joanie ) by drc
(07:27:37) mode (+o API ) by joanie
(07:28:00) API: so opinions?
(07:29:05) joanie has changed the topic to: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
(07:29:20) joanie: No one else has an opinion either I guess?
(07:30:26) API: well, so lets set the action:
(07:30:32) API: "it would be good to test
(07:30:44) API: the stability of a GNOME 3.0 release
(07:30:56) API: test day from fedora seems a good test"
(07:31:00) API: and lets move
(07:31:05) ***joanie nods
(07:31:08) API: 2. Unity 
(07:31:15) API: not too much to add
(07:31:21) API: still a lot of work remaining
(07:31:32) API: 3. Atk Hackfest 
(07:31:33) joanie: I have a question....
(07:31:35) joanie: hold on
(07:31:36) API: ups
(07:31:36) joanie: lol
(07:31:37) API: ok,
(07:31:44) API: <API> 2. Unity 
(07:31:55) joanie: So because we care about Orca users downstream....
(07:32:09) joanie: I set up a system and attempted to build nux and unity
(07:32:14) joanie: and succeeded with the former
(07:32:18) joanie: but not the latter
(07:32:33) joanie: is there an easy way for a11y folks to get involved in testing?
(07:32:41) API: unity is not orca testable right now
(07:32:46) API: not orca testable at all
(07:32:49) joanie: at all.
(07:32:50) joanie: okay
(07:33:01) joanie: I didn't know it was that early still
(07:33:07) API: anyway, for the future
(07:33:11) API: so used this?
(07:33:14) API: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuideFromSource
(07:33:23) joanie: I assume that's what I used
(07:33:33) ***joanie looks
(07:33:37) joanie: Yeah
(07:33:49) joanie: had some library issue with GLUT
(07:34:19) API: glut?
(07:34:36) API: well, I guess that this doesn't fit here
(07:34:47) joanie: nope
(07:34:47) API: lets talk about unity details in other moment
(07:34:49) API: after all
(07:34:56) API: <API> unity is not orca testable right now
(07:35:01) API: anything else about unity?
(07:35:03) joanie: my interest was that there was a way for us to test
(07:35:04) joanie: nope
(07:35:45) aleiva [~gloob@petersburgo.euler.es] entered the room.
(07:36:00) API: no, not testable at this moment
(07:36:08) API: <API> not too much to add
(07:36:09) API: <API><API> not too much to add
(07:36:09) API: <API> still a lot of work remaining still a lot of work remaining
(07:36:18) API: ups, double c&p
(07:36:28) aleiva: normally is true
(07:36:37) aleiva: and good morning, folks
(07:36:43) joanie: normally?
(07:36:48) API: good morning
(07:36:50) joanie: and good morning to you :-)
(07:36:59) aleiva: still a lot of work remaining^2 <- joanie 
(07:37:10) API: well, lets move to next point
(07:37:18) API: 3. Atk Hackfest 
(07:37:45) API: well, dates set
(07:37:58) API: we are already looking for local funds
(07:38:13) API: it would be good if people willing to go 
(07:38:20) joanie: I've updated the page
(07:38:25) API: start to use the travel committee thing
(07:38:31) joanie: You need to send an announcement to the list
(07:38:40) joanie: after you look over the page
(07:39:05) API: announcement to the list? about the official date?
(07:39:09) joanie: yeah
(07:39:14) joanie: you said you would do that
(07:39:18) joanie: previous meeting
(07:39:36) joanie: and more than the date, really
(07:39:57) joanie: It would probably be good to have an official "hey we're having a hackfest" announcement
(07:40:02) joanie: e.g. for the KDE folks
(07:40:14) joanie: and others who probably should be there
(07:40:25) API: KDE folks?
(07:40:34) API: well, this is a atk/at-spi2 hackfest
(07:40:45) API: and although KDE have plans to use at-spi2
(07:40:50) API: this is not the case for atk
(07:41:07) joanie: and jpwhiting (and fregl?) are implementing at-spi2
(07:41:15) API: unless your plan is convince them to use atk
(07:41:17) joanie: but part of the hackfest is at-spi2
(07:41:19) joanie: lol
(07:41:21) joanie: nah
(07:41:41) joanie: did we not also want to get Atk and AT-SPI more aligned?
(07:43:08) API: ok, if qt/kde people are interested on the hackfest ude the at-spi2 part not problem
(07:43:17) API: so on the announcement I should include kde ml?
(07:43:24) joanie: no
(07:43:41) joanie: I would just announce it on either g-a-l or g-a-d
(07:44:15) joanie: I mean, really, I don't think we've ever actually *officially* announced it
(07:44:19) joanie: we came up with it
(07:44:29) joanie: and discussed it in team meeting
(07:44:35) joanie: and semi-privately
(07:44:47) joanie: so a proper announcement is in order
(07:44:53) joanie: it can be a small one
(07:44:54) joanie: :-)
(07:46:28) API: ok
(07:46:29) API: so
(07:46:33) API: lets summarize
(07:46:38) API: action1: announcement (me)
(07:46:55) API: action2: contact travel committee (people requiring that)
(07:47:12) joanie: action 3: "homework"
(07:47:13) API: action3: keep searching funding (we already contacted local LUGs)
(07:47:18) joanie: oops
(07:47:24) API: yeah
(07:47:33) API: action X: homework, keep 
(07:47:38) API: creating bugs for the metabug
(07:47:42) API: and think about them
(07:48:01) API: so, lets move then
(07:48:07) API: 4. Donations and fundraising 
(07:48:11) API: well, joanie 
(07:48:14) API: you added this point
(07:48:16) joanie: yeah
(07:48:18) API: soo
(07:48:18) joanie: :-)
(07:48:24) joanie: soooo....
(07:48:37) joanie: every once in a while people want to donate
(07:48:49) joanie: and aleiva and I are waiting for acceptance into SFC
(07:48:52) joanie: in the meantime....
(07:49:05) joanie: apparently we have some sort of paypal account for a11y donations
(07:49:17) joanie: but we (to my knowledge) don't have any page outlining this stuff
(07:49:30) joanie: so when people say, "how do I donate to Orca?"
(07:49:32) joanie: and I answer them
(07:49:37) joanie: Bryen then corrects me
(07:49:39) joanie: ;-)
(07:50:00) joanie: I've asked him for a page and ways to clearly point people to this magical account
(07:50:03) joanie: and gotten no response
(07:50:14) joanie: so I'm willing to create the page if there are no objections
(07:50:15) API: for a page where?
(07:50:20) joanie: gnome a11y wiki
(07:50:34) API: and who controls that paypal account?
(07:50:39) joanie: damned if I know
(07:50:42) joanie: that's one of my questions
(07:50:44) joanie: :-)
(07:50:46) API: is a gnome foundation paypal account?
(07:50:52) joanie: I assume so
(07:51:03) joanie: we need to look into it
(07:51:17) joanie: basically, that agenda item is there because we need to get our collective acts together
(07:51:18) API: well, action: answer all the unanswered questions ;) 
(07:51:23) joanie: yeah
(07:51:28) joanie: and I'll take the lead on that
(07:51:32) joanie: if no one else wants it
(07:52:15) joanie: Okay, I'm guessing it's mine :-)
(07:52:32) API: ok, anything else about this point?
(07:52:38) joanie: any objections to a page?
(07:52:43) joanie: once I have the answers?
(07:53:35) API: well, if there are that account
(07:53:44) API: and you could use it
(07:53:47) API: well you
(07:53:55) API: I don't remember
(07:53:58) joanie: ?
(07:54:03) API: if it is a orca or a gnome-a11y account
(07:54:07) joanie: gnome-a11y
(07:54:15) API: ok, so lets rephrase
(07:54:16) joanie: I'm looking at the team
(07:54:28) API: if there is that account, and can be used to fund gnome a11y
(07:54:33) API: it would be good to
(07:54:40) API: use that
(07:54:50) API: and for that people should know that exist
(07:54:55) joanie: :-)
(07:55:02) API: well, 5 minutes to the end
(07:55:06) API: so lets summarize
(07:55:15) API: skipping 5 (I guess no time=
(07:55:16) API: )
(07:55:20) API: 6. Q4 reports are due 
(07:55:23) API: in summary
(07:55:35) API: people we need to fill that (me included)
(07:55:39) joanie: me too
(07:55:55) API: action: send another gently reminder
(07:55:59) joanie: I hope to write mine later today. For real this time.
(07:56:05) API: action2: do my homework
(07:56:06) joanie: I'll ping others.
(07:56:11) API: 4 minutes till the end
(07:56:11) API: so
(07:56:15) API: miscellaneous time
(07:56:31) ***joanie thinks there should be a miscellaneous time song
(07:56:44) aleiva: GSOC?
(07:57:14) aleiva: I'm thinking that would be good to define some tasks for google summer of code
(07:57:17) aleiva: around a11y
(07:57:39) API: aleiva was GSOC announced?
(07:57:54) API: and I guess that this is related to
(07:57:57) API: 5. Student contributors 
(07:58:00) joanie: :-)
(07:58:12) aleiva: no idea of timeline, but thinking on this sooner than later is a good thing (TM)
(07:58:12) API: as they are also waiting for tasks
(07:58:24) API: uhu, we have a volunteer 
(07:58:31) joanie: uhu?
(07:58:57) aleiva: I can manage this
(07:59:49) joanie: so this year, I am not sure if we are ready for GSOC
(07:59:55) API: in what sense?
(07:59:58) joanie: but I would like us to start doing it the following year
(08:00:12) joanie: in what sense ready? or managing?
(08:00:48) aleiva: we can define some goals for students
(08:00:55) aleiva: we can use that goals later for GSOC
(08:01:02) aleiva: and apply to GSOC as part of GNOME
(08:01:04) API: why you say that we are not ready for GSOC?
(08:01:22) joanie: because we have too much to do between now and this summer
(08:01:24) aleiva: probably available time
(08:01:25) joanie: GNOME 3
(08:01:28) joanie: hackfest
(08:01:31) joanie: etc.
(08:01:47) joanie: What I would like to do after that -- rather what I PLAN to do after that
(08:01:58) joanie: is work with Heidi and her students since I'm local
(08:02:03) joanie: and should have more time
(08:02:10) joanie: now that I'm not the only Orca maintainer :-)
(08:02:25) joanie: I'd like to get other modules involved
(08:02:42) joanie: and the sorts of stuff we do with Heidi and WNEC would also make good sense as GSOC
(08:02:48) joanie: and other university programs
(08:03:03) API: so you are proposing a order
(08:03:13) API: 1. finish gnome3 core stuff
(08:03:20) API: 2. define work for students
(08:03:29) API: 3. use that work for next year gsoc
(08:03:30) API: ?
(08:03:33) joanie: 1a. finish the hackfest stuff
(08:03:50) joanie: Yeah, essentially
(08:03:53) joanie: I am proposing that I take over "student outreach"
(08:04:01) joanie: before when I was asked I could not do it
(08:04:11) joanie: because I had inherited Orca leadership
(08:04:14) joanie: on top of a day job
(08:04:19) joanie: now that we have aleiva
(08:04:24) joanie: and things are settling down
(08:04:44) joanie: University training stuff is something I am better equipped to coordinate
(08:04:52) joanie: and I'm willing to do so
(08:05:35) aleiva: well, I was talking about the relationship of gnome-a11y and GSOC globally
(08:05:39) API: well, aleiva opinion?
(08:05:42) aleiva: sure we can provide some tasks to do
(08:05:44) aleiva: and
(08:06:09) aleiva: I hope that gsoc-students won't need many time to drive them to the goals
(08:06:12) aleiva: they can pass or fail too
(08:06:30) joanie: aleiva: You cannot just say here's a task have fun
(08:06:40) joanie: it's an investment of time
(08:06:51) joanie: and we know how much time you have ;-)
(08:06:54) aleiva: well, we have meetings
(08:07:10) aleiva: we have mail lists
(08:07:15) aleiva: we have irc
(08:07:28) aleiva: something to think
(08:07:28) API: aleiva, so you are proposing not coming to meetings and helping that students? ;)
(08:07:46) joanie: lol
(08:07:49) aleiva: API: interesting reasoning
(08:08:06) aleiva: API: I'm proposing the gnome-a11y as a whole
(08:08:14) aleiva: I'm not only talking about Orca
(08:08:21) joanie: aleiva: I wasn't either
(08:08:27) joanie: (talking just about Orca)
(08:08:57) joanie: If I were just talking about Orca, there would not be a "student contributors" topic on the full team agenda ;-)
(08:09:10) joanie: instead, I would raise it at an Orca team meeting
(08:09:15) aleiva: so, reformulating
(08:09:36) aleiva: think about if we have enough time to provide some tasks via GSOC to potential students
(08:09:48) joanie: I think we will NEXT summer
(08:09:52) joanie: not this summer
(08:11:12) API: well, 10 minutes over time
(08:11:24) API: although it seems that there isn't a conclusion
(08:11:30) ***joanie laughs
(08:11:34) joanie: I have one
(08:11:37) API: but could you give a partial conclusion?
(08:11:58) joanie: My conclusion is that we (full GNOME a11y team)
(08:12:08) joanie: should try to engage student contributors
(08:12:10) joanie: WNEC
(08:12:12) joanie: GSOC
(08:12:13) joanie: more
(08:12:22) joanie: I am volunteering to coordinate this
(08:12:30) joanie: I am suggesting we start AFTER this summer
(08:12:35) joanie: fall with WNEC
(08:12:41) joanie: summer 2012 for GSOC
(08:12:54) aleiva: fall 2011?
(08:12:57) joanie: yes
(08:13:15) joanie: aleiva: September I will be working with Heidi
(08:13:24) aleiva: well that's ok for me, more if you'?re going to manage this :-)
(08:13:38) joanie: aleiva: You're not off the hook. I'll need your help ;-)
(08:13:46) joanie: But the broader effort needs management
(08:13:53) aleiva: I don't why I suggest things :-D
(08:14:01) aleiva: I don't know*
(08:14:02) joanie: huh?
(08:14:09) joanie: me neither :-P
(08:14:20) joanie: aleiva: It's a good idea
(08:14:25) joanie: I just think we need to be ready for it
(08:14:38) aleiva: let's start in fall after satbilization of orca codebase
(08:14:41) joanie: and we (full gnome a11y team) will not be ready this summer I'm afraid
(08:14:46) ***joanie nods
(08:15:03) aleiva: probably never, but we need to test sooner or later
(08:15:19) joanie: aleiva: We'll be "good enough" come fall
(08:15:33) joanie: and hopefully OCRFeeder will also continue to be an option for students
(08:15:35) aleiva: ok, good for me
(08:15:47) joanie: and anything else we come up with in gnome a11y
(08:16:20) API: so, can we conclude that this was a conclusion of miscellaneous time?
(08:16:41) aleiva: API: yup
(08:16:54) API: ok, item finished
(08:16:55) joanie: we still need a song
(08:16:59) API: 15 minutes over time
(08:17:04) API: meeting over
(08:17:05) joanie: sorry
(08:17:10) aleiva: thanks guys
(08:17:11) API: thanks all people