1 (15:01:11) API: well, meeting time
   2 (15:01:32) API: agenda here
   3 (15:01:35) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
   4 (15:01:47) API: probably we should change the channel topic with this link
   5 (15:01:59) joanie: API that's done already
   6 (15:02:06) joanie: unless you want it just that topic
   7 (15:02:26) msanchez [~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] entered the room.
   8 (15:02:34) API: ah ok
   9 (15:02:42) joanie: I didn't want an uber-long topic
  10 (15:02:44) API: well, lets start with
  11 (15:02:52) API: please raise your hands if you are here
  12 (15:03:03) ***fer does
  13 (15:03:04) ***joanie raises her hand
  14 (15:03:20) ***mgorse raises his hand (not that anyone can see him doing it)
  15 (15:03:24) ***msanchez did it, but nobody was looking at him
  16 (15:03:39) ***API I looked to msanchez ... he is a liar
  17 (15:05:26) API: ok, 5 introduction minutes are enough
  18 (15:05:31) API: lets start the project
  19 (15:05:34) API: ups
  20 (15:05:37) API: start the meeting
  21 (15:05:44) ***eeejay raises hand
  22 (15:05:49) API: 1. Documentation
  23 (15:05:54) ***joanie hopes shaunm will raise his
  24 (15:05:58) API: shaunm, are you here? you are the star of this point
  25 (15:08:19) API: well, I guess that shaunm is not right now here
  26 (15:08:25) API: so lets move the point for later
  27 (15:08:29) shaunm: oh oh!
  28 (15:08:30) shaunm: sorry
  29 (15:08:31) joanie: lol
  30 (15:08:35) ***joanie kicks shaunm
  31 (15:08:37) ***fer waves
  32 (15:08:38) API: ah
  33 (15:08:43) API: cool
  34 (15:08:55) API: please joanie and shaunm lets go with the documentation item
  35 (15:09:28) shaunm: so
  36 (15:09:42) shaunm: I've been working on stubbing out pages in the desktop help for basic a11y features
  37 (15:09:47) shaunm: http://people.gnome.org/~shaunm/a11y-help.png
  38 (15:10:07) shaunm: (ignore the double posts of links under color-blindness. that's a yelp bug I've already fixed)
  39 (15:10:32) ***clown raises his hand (sorry for being a little late).
  40 (15:10:40) shaunm: the idea is that we will at least present every accessibility feature in the main desktop help
  41 (15:11:12) shaunm: things that need lots more documentation (orca) may have their own application help, but we'll still present orca in the desktop help, then link to the app help for more information
  42 (15:12:26) shaunm: my organization right now is more or less feature-based, though I've tried to categorize them by need
  43 (15:12:55) shaunm: devoid of real information on what types of people need what, the feature breakdown is the only way I can present things
  44 (15:13:09) shaunm: (and maybe that's ok)
  45 (15:13:49) joanie: I don't think it's a bad thing
  46 (15:14:01) clown: I'm wondering if the organization should match the new preferences gui?  Seeing, for example: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/NewPreferencesGUI#Seeing_Tab
  47 (15:14:23) clown: actually, I think it sort of does match, already.
  48 (15:14:41) shaunm: clown: yeah, I think the new prefs gui goes a long way towards organizing things the way I'd organize the help anyway
  49 (15:15:05) clown: cool
  50 (15:15:29) shaunm: though there are things I don't see in there
  51 (15:15:53) fer: yeah, like colorblind stuff :)
  52 (15:16:15) fer: who is implementing universal preferences dialog now?
  53 (15:16:29) joanie: william jon mccann
  54 (15:16:31) shaunm: for example, the Locate Pointer feature, and increasing the pointer size. in gnome 2, we tie those to the mouse prefs, but they're really for people with vision problems
  55 (15:16:38) clown: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3#New_Universal_Access_Preferences_UI
  56 (15:16:41) clown: fer ^
  57 (15:16:57) shaunm: fer: do we have anything for color-blind people, short of telling us that we can change colors in some apps?
  58 (15:16:58) clown: although that section needs updating.
  59 (15:17:23) fer: shaunm: in GNOME 2 we had colorbling applet
  60 (15:17:46) shaunm: fer: didn't that just change screen colors to simulate color-blindness?
  61 (15:17:57) joanie: the applet did
  62 (15:18:01) joanie: but Orca actually uses it
  63 (15:18:12) joanie: and provides color filtering through libcolorblind
  64 (15:18:15) shaunm: that's more of a feature for developers, I would think. so they can test their apps.
  65 (15:18:43) joanie: I mean Orca actually uses the library, not the associated applet
  66 (15:19:00) joanie: but it's optional as libcolorblind is (to my knowledge) not a blessed dependency
  67 (15:19:12) joanie: and I gather from Fer (I think it was Fer) that it's in bad shape. :-(
  68 (15:19:13) shaunm: all right, well, if there's something to put under there, we'll put it there. the heading won't show up if there's no links
  69 (15:20:05) shaunm: so, things I would like to know:
  70 (15:20:55) shaunm: what's up with caribou? gok had all sorts of stuff for using a switch. it was way more than a clicky-clicky gui keyboard
  71 (15:21:23) joanie: yeah, eeejay, what's up with caribou?
  72 (15:21:25) joanie: ;-)
  73 (15:21:31) fer: gok had switch support, but it won't work on gnome 3
  74 (15:21:40) shaunm: also, I'd like to know which of our a11y features are likely to be interesting to people using a switch
  75 (15:21:44) eeejay: well, i have been putting some time in cleaning the current code base up
  76 (15:22:00) eeejay: scanning support is in
  77 (15:22:17) eeejay: right now i am migrating to pygi
  78 (15:22:26) eeejay: that's about it..
  79 (15:22:52) eeejay: so shaunm, caribou has initial switch support, it's not completely fantastic yet
  80 (15:23:30) shaunm: ok
  81 (15:24:26) shaunm: more generally, I'd love to have a better sense of what kinds of mobility problems people might have, what sorts of hardware they use to help them, and which features are interesting to which people
  82 (15:24:45) shaunm: which, joanie, I think goes along with the a11y personas we talked about the other day
  83 (15:24:51) joanie: indeed
  84 (15:25:17) joanie: the blindness and low vision ones are on my to-do list after docs and merging a new feature into Orca
  85 (15:25:23) joanie: but I cannot get you other personas
  86 (15:25:50) joanie: I can help think about them; just I'm not the expert for the non-vision-related stuff
  87 (15:26:03) eeejay: you guys know of the aegis personas, right?
  88 (15:26:10) ***joanie doesn't
  89 (15:26:18) shaunm: me neither
  90 (15:26:22) ***clown ashamed to say I don't
  91 (15:26:24) ***joanie has been largely unaffected by aegis :-/
  92 (15:26:36) eeejay: http://www.aegis-project.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63&Itemid=53
  93 (15:27:05) joanie: sweet
  94 (15:27:09) eeejay: tada!
  95 (15:27:09) joanie: eeejay ftw
  96 (15:27:23) shaunm: oh nice
  97 (15:27:31) eeejay: and they have some liberal license
  98 (15:28:41) shaunm: this is helpful
  99 (15:28:46) API: I don't this point, but we are reaching the half hour deadline
 100 (15:28:55) API: I think that it is worth to start to think
 101 (15:28:56) API: in 
 102 (15:28:58) API: conclusions
 103 (15:28:59) API: actions
 104 (15:29:23) API: and then try to coordinate this point out of the meeting, if more level of detail is required
 105 (15:29:47) ***API this "I don't this point" should be "I don't want to spoil this point"
 106 (15:29:52) shaunm: right
 107 (15:30:08) joanie: so tentatively shaunm: Are you set with personas?
 108 (15:30:12) joanie: for now?
 109 (15:30:14) shaunm: for now
 110 (15:30:19) ***joanie nods
 111 (15:30:32) shaunm: I would like to determine if any other areas need their own help documents
 112 (15:30:46) shaunm: possible candidates are the magnifier and caribou
 113 (15:30:57) joanie: what about accerciser?
 114 (15:30:57) shaunm: plus other alternative inputs like dasher
 115 (15:31:07) shaunm: more of a developer feature, right?
 116 (15:31:10) joanie: yup
 117 (15:31:27) joanie: still needs a bunch of documentation though
 118 (15:31:45) shaunm: so it should be talked about in the accessibility developer's guide (on my long list)
 119 (15:31:53) joanie: gotcha. my bad.
 120 (15:32:17) shaunm: um
 121 (15:32:32) eeejay: accerciser has it's own docs as well
 122 (15:32:39) shaunm: and I guess just one more question (which can be answered later), then I'm done
 123 (15:32:55) shaunm: eeejay: right, and it should. but it should be presented in the devel guide
 124 (15:33:08) eeejay: right
 125 (15:33:22) shaunm: to what extent should I present or talk about gnome-friendly a11y tech that isn't in our modulesets?
 126 (15:33:35) fer: dots?
 127 (15:33:41) shaunm: mousetrap, opengazer, any of the crazy cool things those chaps from cambridge showed me
 128 (15:33:43) shaunm: dots
 129 (15:33:45) joanie: ugh, guys, you know....
 130 (15:33:53) joanie: fer is here to talk about API Changes
 131 (15:34:01) joanie: and eeejay CSUN
 132 (15:34:04) joanie: so....
 133 (15:34:07) joanie: in summary,
 134 (15:34:08) fer: and for the rest of the meeting :)
 135 (15:34:08) shaunm: move on
 136 (15:34:12) joanie: Shaun doesn't need personals
 137 (15:34:14) shaunm: I'll send a list of questions to the list
 138 (15:34:15) joanie: ;-)
 139 (15:34:17) joanie: super
 140 (15:34:21) joanie: (sorry shaunm!)
 141 (15:34:21) fer: great
 142 (15:34:24) fer: so I take it then
 143 (15:34:29) eeejay: shaunm: unrelated to docs, i would push those for module inclusion if they are ready
 144 (15:34:36) eeejay: shaunm: and then happily document
 145 (15:35:24) ***API guessing if point 1 is over or not
 146 (15:35:31) joanie: it is
 147 (15:35:34) ***API 25 till the end
 148 (15:35:39) API: ok, thanks
 149 (15:35:44) API: lets move
 150 (15:35:46) API: point 2
 151 (15:35:47) fer: ok, so my take
 152 (15:35:52) fer: API changes
 153 (15:35:52) API: 2 AT-SPI/Atk API changes proposed (fer) 
 154 (15:36:10) API: fer this is related with this¿
 155 (15:36:13) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Roadmap#Augmented_and_Consistently-Implemented_Atk
 156 (15:36:27) fer: currently I have two things I would like to chagne, but also I would like to discuss the better way to do it and what other things you may want to change
 157 (15:36:58) fer: well, some issues are covered there
 158 (15:37:15) API: fer, hmm but this sound as a long discussion about a specific technical aspect
 159 (15:37:24) API: and weekly meetings purpose is not that ;)
 160 (15:37:30) fer: yeah, I can keep technical details for the mailing list
 161 (15:37:40) fer: but I would like to discuss about API breaks vs. API aditions
 162 (15:38:17) API: fer ah ok
 163 (15:38:21) fer: that is, at this point we can change atk/at-spi API because GNOME 3 (gtk) is going to do it anyway
 164 (15:38:26) API: about atk2 or just improve atk
 165 (15:38:44) fer: but my question is... is it worth for so small changes?
 166 (15:38:47) ***joanie wouldn't mind both places
 167 (15:38:50) joanie: fer it is
 168 (15:39:02) fer: ok
 169 (15:39:11) API: you mean if it is worth to make API breaks for small changes?
 170 (15:39:11) joanie: text changed is broken for java, and sounds like gecko
 171 (15:39:28) joanie: text selection sucks right now, and doesn't work in Orca+Gecko
 172 (15:39:30) API: joanie, but this is a problem with ATK?
 173 (15:39:32) fer: and then, probably, as the break window is open, we may want to change some other stuff at the same time, so I'll make a call
 174 (15:39:41) API: or it is because the current implementation?
 175 (15:39:44) joanie: API both Atk and AT-SPI
 176 (15:39:52) API: fer at this point
 177 (15:40:01) API: we will not arrive at time for a ATK API break
 178 (15:40:12) fer: really?
 179 (15:40:13) API: gtk3 people are starting to closing the doors
 180 (15:40:23) API: in fact this is the reason they are already planning gtk4
 181 (15:40:27) joanie: lol
 182 (15:40:29) API: because they detected some 
 183 (15:40:32) API: things
 184 (15:40:38) API: that will not arrive in time for gtk3
 185 (15:40:44) joanie: API then I still think we aim for backwards compatibility
 186 (15:40:46) API: gtk3 needs to be finished before gnome3
 187 (15:40:53) joanie: and add new stuff
 188 (15:41:06) fer: yeah, and mark the other stuff and deprecated
 189 (15:41:09) joanie: because we have existing problems in other toolkits than Gtk
 190 (15:41:13) fer: and remove it for atk4 :)
 191 (15:41:17) joanie: lol
 192 (15:41:25) mgorse: Is there a date for API freezes? I think it usually concides with .5
 193 (15:41:30) API: well but fer mentioned this breakage because gtk3 ;)
 194 (15:41:49) API: mgorse, I don't know, I have never be too good for that
 195 (15:41:55) API: but the issue is 
 196 (15:42:04) API: if we are planning to improve ATK and at-spi API
 197 (15:42:08) joanie: mgorse: I think you're right. Which is in like 3 or 4 weeks
 198 (15:42:12) API: that could lead to some breakage
 199 (15:42:16) API: this will require debate
 200 (15:42:20) API: this will mean some weeks
 201 (15:42:22) API: etc
 202 (15:42:26) ***joanie frowns
 203 (15:42:27) API: so
 204 (15:42:31) API: we can start that work
 205 (15:42:32) fer: Jan 31  is API freeze for gnome 3
 206 (15:42:45) API: but plan this new atk2, or atk3 or atk4
 207 (15:42:47) mgorse: TwoPointNinetyone lists the API/ABI freeze as on 2.91.6 / Jan 31
 208 (15:42:54) API: for gnome3 would not be really sensible
 209 (15:43:01) API: IMHO of course
 210 (15:43:21) mgorse: but, yeah, there are potential issues with Gecko, OpenOffice, etc., which have release cycles independent of GNOME
 211 (15:43:32) joanie: ditto for Java
 212 (15:43:37) fer: if we don't fix it now, we are going to have broken apps out there for many years
 213 (15:43:46) API: joanie, about my question
 214 (15:43:50) API: the text selection stuff
 215 (15:43:55) API: is a problem of ATK?
 216 (15:44:01) API: on Java, Gecko etc
 217 (15:44:05) joanie: more complex than that
 218 (15:44:11) joanie: so it's two-fold
 219 (15:44:15) mgorse: I don't see a reason not to add things, but I think we need to preserve backwards compatibility for now
 220 (15:44:19) joanie: in part the current implementation just bites
 221 (15:44:40) API: mgorse, I agree
 222 (15:45:05) joanie: in part, Gecko's broken caret navigation means that if we had better support from Atk/AT-SPI, Orca would automatically support reporting Gecko selection
 223 (15:45:16) joanie: I don't want to deep dive in this
 224 (15:45:17) fer: ok, so the plan could be, add new stuff, and mark the old api as deprecated in order to remove it in the future?
 225 (15:45:20) joanie: given the hour
 226 (15:45:28) joanie: +1 fer
 227 (15:45:29) API: well, and joanie take into account that we put the "ATK revamp" for april 2011 ...
 228 (15:45:39) joanie: true
 229 (15:45:49) fer: ok, so that is a good solution
 230 (15:45:51) joanie: I think we should have an Atk hackfest
 231 (15:45:56) joanie: seriously
 232 (15:46:09) API: joanie, so no a accessibility hackfest with a ATK "party"?
 233 (15:46:16) API: a specific atk hackfest?
 234 (15:46:16) joanie: no
 235 (15:46:17) fer: I'll mail to the list proposing addition of new signals/prototypes for text-inserted, text-updated, text-removed and selection-changed
 236 (15:46:18) joanie: correct
 237 (15:46:29) clown: fer, which list?
 238 (15:46:32) mgorse: Do we want to do that at CSUN (possibly lead into next topic)? Or in Boston for instance?
 239 (15:46:33) clown: gnome-a11y?
 240 (15:46:42) fer: wow, having a atk hackfest with the java guys + mozilla + any other parties would be SO awesome
 241 (15:46:46) fer: clown: yup
 242 (15:46:51) joanie: or spain
 243 (15:46:51) clown: fer, thanks
 244 (15:46:54) API: fer, when you mean new? you mean new signals with new names, or change the meaning of the current ones?
 245 (15:47:14) fer: new signals with new names is the only way to not break API/ABI
 246 (15:47:15) joanie: because many of the people who need to be in spain are there. 
 247 (15:47:17) API: well, indirectly this would be also at-spi related hackfest
 248 (15:47:28) joanie: of course
 249 (15:47:30) API: ie, I think that it would be good 
 250 (15:47:34) joanie: Atk+AT-SPI
 251 (15:47:44) API: making at-spi API more similar to the ATK one
 252 (15:47:49) API: I know that this is hard
 253 (15:48:00) API: as at-spi is more general than ATK
 254 (15:48:06) API: but just an idea
 255 (15:48:12) API: well, 10 minutes to go
 256 (15:48:16) API: so as I said before
 257 (15:48:17) API: we need
 258 (15:48:20) API: conclusions
 259 (15:48:21) API: actions
 260 (15:48:33) API: conclusions: we can't break ATK API breakage now
 261 (15:48:51) API: 2. It shouldn't a problem to add things and mark methods/signals as deprecated
 262 (15:49:12) API: 3. This can be the initial work for the following ATK2 or atk4 work
 263 (15:49:22) API: I say atk4, because with this gtk4 thing
 264 (15:49:30) API: gtk people are thinking in a glib4
 265 (15:49:36) Pendulum: eep sorry I forgot about the meeting!
 266 (15:49:41) API: Pendulum, no worry
 267 (15:49:58) API: 4. Debate about a specific atk hackfest
 268 (15:50:02) API: I forget something?
 269 (15:50:14) fer: nop, very good summary
 270 (15:51:20) API: ok, so lets move
 271 (15:51:24) API: btw: eeejay 
 272 (15:51:32) eeejay: ?
 273 (15:51:32) API: we usually don't add items on the agenda 
 274 (15:51:36) API: during the meeting :P
 275 (15:51:45) eeejay: API, i didn't
 276 (15:51:47) API: we have miscellaneous time for that kind of things ;)
 277 (15:51:51) API: ah ok
 278 (15:51:58) API: sorry
 279 (15:51:59) eeejay: API, added it yesterday
 280 (15:52:08) API: I misunderstood joanie
 281 (15:52:12) API: 10 minutes
 282 (15:52:22) API: so please eeejay wait a moment
 283 (15:52:28) API: I have a fast item (I hope)
 284 (15:52:36) API: 3. gtktreeview
 285 (15:52:48) API: as you already know gtktreeview is one of the stars of gtk
 286 (15:52:54) API: and a really huge widget
 287 (15:52:55) fer: and of gail! :)
 288 (15:53:09) API: yes, and a huge piece of code on gail
 289 (15:53:14) API: right now they are revamping it
 290 (15:53:20) API: gtktreeview and all the cell stuff
 291 (15:53:25) API: and they are finishing it
 292 (15:53:44) API: in theory things should still work
 293 (15:53:44) ***joanie hopes it won't be any less performant than the beast already is
 294 (15:53:57) API: but, of course they didn't test it
 295 (15:54:02) fer: is that for gtk3, right?
 296 (15:54:04) joanie: (continue to work and suck like they did before you mean?)
 297 (15:54:06) mgorse: Yeah. The gail treeview code has serious performance issues; it would be nice if it could be improved somehow, but I've never looked at it that carefully
 298 (15:54:21) API: Tristan words summarizes it:
 299 (15:54:27) API: I expect libgail to not need any changes, we paid special attention
 300 (15:54:27) API: that focus navigation was going to work the same way using the new
 301 (15:54:27) API: code... however there could be some fallout I'm not aware of...
 302 (15:54:33) API: well, yes performance is a issue
 303 (15:54:45) API: but the thing is that now we should check that it works
 304 (15:54:50) fer: but it is not a regression :)
 305 (15:54:51) fer: agreed
 306 (15:54:53) joanie: super
 307 (15:55:07) API: so
 308 (15:55:14) fer: API: are those changed on gtk3 trunk? or in a separate branch?
 309 (15:55:21) API: conclusion: gailtreeview is not tested with this revamped gtktreeview
 310 (15:55:42) API: fer: a separate branchh for the moment, although this guy didn't confirm my question about the specific one
 311 (15:55:53) API: action: anyone with time should test it
 312 (15:56:08) API: and I will send a mail to Li Yuan about it, as he is not here
 313 (15:56:12) API: 5 minutes to go!!
 314 (15:56:20) API: eeejay, your move
 315 (15:56:22) mgorse: We need to know which branch and/or when it'll be merged into master
 316 (15:56:27) eeejay: ok!
 317 (15:56:35) API: mgorse, when==soon
 318 (15:56:47) eeejay: we have CSUN coming up, as I understand there won't be a hackfest there which is great
 319 (15:57:26) eeejay: i am sooo swamped that bryen took on a lot of the organizing, so i am not sure who besides him and me are volunteering
 320 (15:57:38) eeejay: in any case we will be about 4-5 people
 321 (15:57:50) eeejay: i guess we should check with the travel committee?
 322 (15:58:13) eeejay: bryn. me and korn will be presenting
 323 (15:58:22) eeejay: um
 324 (15:58:25) fer: would we have a booth there?
 325 (15:58:36) eeejay: fer, yeah, that is the main thing
 326 (15:58:49) eeejay: fer last year we had booth + presentations + hackfest
 327 (15:59:21) eeejay: otoh, if anyone is interested in meeting and collaborating there on project let me know
 328 (15:59:32) API: eeejay, when joanie and me contacted the foundation about a buget
 329 (15:59:40) eeejay: when is the next a11y meeting?
 330 (15:59:41) fer: I may go to CSUN, but I don't know yet
 331 (15:59:41) API: we include dCSUN
 332 (15:59:56) API: eeejay, we have one each Thursday ;)
 333 (16:00:00) joanie: but not 4 or 5 people
 334 (16:00:08) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
 335 (16:00:23) eeejay: great! Next thursday i will have a clearer agenda re:csun, this is more of a heads up
 336 (16:00:40) eeejay: joanie: how many people?
 337 (16:00:40) mgorse: eeejay: It's actually 11pm Wednesday your time
 338 (16:00:48) joanie: 3
 339 (16:00:57) API: anyway, this budget this is somewhat stucked, I guess that they are waiting for a final roadmap
 340 (16:01:06) eeejay: joanie: bryen is taken care of, no need for funding
 341 (16:01:08) joanie: They have our roadmap
 342 (16:01:10) API: and these days gpoo is mssing
 343 (16:01:11) API: missing
 344 (16:01:23) eeejay: i think we have someone else on board, someone from india?
 345 (16:01:46) joanie: eeejay: I was planning on going on the gnu dime, but that looks like it's going to not happen
 346 (16:01:51) joanie: (was going to be on a panel)
 347 (16:02:06) joanie: someone from india?
 348 (16:02:43) eeejay: i forgot his name
 349 (16:02:53) joanie: does he expect funding from us?
 350 (16:03:09) eeejay: joanie: i'll get back to you on this
 351 (16:03:16) joanie: or to put it another way....
 352 (16:03:34) joanie: staffing a booth is not something that requires international travel
 353 (16:03:40) joanie: which tends to be costly
 354 (16:03:50) eeejay: joanie: right
 355 (16:03:55) ***eeejay agrees
 356 (16:04:01) joanie: and given a limited (extremely limited) budget
 357 (16:04:08) joanie: I think we fund active team members 
 358 (16:04:19) joanie: over people whose names we can't even remember ;-)
 359 (16:04:27) eeejay: oh, maybe he is stateside, rohan?
 360 (16:04:33) joanie: stateside is better
 361 (16:05:06) joanie: anyhoo, API is going to crack the whip and demand conclusions
 362 (16:05:08) joanie: ;-)
 363 (16:05:11) API: eeejay, in which gnome project this india guy is related?
 364 (16:05:18) eeejay: yeah, he is in india, ok. we will have to disappoint him..
 365 (16:05:27) ***API API using a totally broken grammar sentence
 366 (16:05:41) eeejay: API, he is Bryen's protege :)
 367 (16:05:42) joanie: the meaning behind it is still valid
 368 (16:06:38) API: eeejay, ok, but he is working on a specific gnome project? 
 369 (16:08:32) eeejay: API, can't answer that. looks like he is done a bunch of research things. in any case the travel expenses and limited involvement probably does not justify it
 370 (16:08:51) API: eeejay, ok, as you said, you need some details
 371 (16:08:56) API: so, for the minutes sake
 372 (16:09:04) API: can you summarize your point?
 373 (16:09:06) API: conclusions
 374 (16:09:08) API: actions
 375 (16:10:03) eeejay: csun is in march, we have space for 2 more people, let me know if you want to volunteer, more details next week
 376 (16:10:25) mgorse: eeejay: I'm fairly certain I'll be there. Should not need funding, though
 377 (16:10:25) API: eeejay, ok, thsnks
 378 (16:10:28) API: thanks I mean
 379 (16:10:35) eeejay: mgorse: sweet!
 380 (16:10:42) API: well 10 minutes over the time
 381 (16:10:49) eeejay: not bad
 382 (16:10:51) API: I think that we can declare the meeting over
 383 (16:11:07) ***clown listens for the sound of a gavel
 384 (16:11:08) API: sorry if someone was not able to say anything
 385 (16:11:17) API: but you have the ml 
 386 (16:11:23) API: meeting over