1 (07:06:58) API [~API@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] entered the room.
   2 (07:07:26) API: hi, I have missed something?
   3 (07:07:35) joanie: hey API
   4 (07:07:37) joanie: nah
   5 (07:08:33) API: ok, so first, happy thanksgiving
   6 (07:08:39) joanie: thanks
   7 (07:08:45) danigm_out is now known as danigm
   8 (07:08:57) API: you are welcome
   9 (07:09:31) API: btw, apart of joanie, anyone else here?
  10 (07:09:57) joanie: slackers, all of 'em
  11 (07:09:58) joanie: ;-)
  12 (07:10:24) joanie: API we're you really up editing and commenting on bugs at 03:00ish??
  13 (07:10:31) joanie: s/we're/were/
  14 (07:10:58) API: well, I needed to write something on the roadmap
  15 (07:11:18) API: so meanwhile I added that comment
  16 (07:11:39) API: and of course I write just a little on the roadmap
  17 (07:11:47) API: and now Im sleepy
  18 (07:11:49) joanie: lol
  19 (07:11:54) joanie: you're silly
  20 (07:12:04) joanie: thanks for adding the atk stuff
  21 (07:12:10) joanie: and the meego stuff sounds interesting
  22 (07:12:22) joanie: time frame?
  23 (07:13:14) API: well, yes although it is in a real draft mode, not like the other sections that seems to be written well
  24 (07:13:18) API: about the time frame
  25 (07:13:37) API: well, im not sure, this is one
  26 (07:13:48) API: of the reason I put it on "to be discussed" section
  27 (07:13:55) joanie: :-)
  28 (07:14:07) joanie: I've not been following the meego situation all that closely
  29 (07:14:13) joanie: who all is involved?
  30 (07:14:17) API: first, as there is a project to ensure gtk would work on meego
  31 (07:14:20) joanie: where are they in the process?
  32 (07:14:27) API: a foundation project
  33 (07:14:36) API: it should be after that
  34 (07:14:40) API: well about involved
  35 (07:14:46) API: Nokia and Intel
  36 (07:15:11) API: are the main actors
  37 (07:15:15) API: Novell is also involved
  38 (07:15:23) joanie: do we have a time frame / roadmap /something on the gtk bit?
  39 (07:15:29) API: ie: Michael Meeks did some 
  40 (07:15:46) API: joanie, well the last friday was the deadline to send proposals
  41 (07:16:02) joanie: ah
  42 (07:16:15) joanie: you have a copy of the rfp?
  43 (07:16:32) joanie: I guess what I'm trying to say is: Do we need to look at this in 6 months, a year, what?
  44 (07:16:38) joanie: and I know it's just a guess
  45 (07:16:49) joanie: but some ballpark number would be nifty if possible
  46 (07:17:59) API: hmm
  47 (07:18:07) API: I think that the rfp was done on the mailing list
  48 (07:18:11) ***API searching
  49 (07:19:44) API: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-announce/2010-October/msg00001.html
  50 (07:19:51) joanie: tyvm
  51 (07:19:53) ***joanie looks
  52 (07:19:56) API: anyway it just says the requirements
  53 (07:20:07) API: and the money
  54 (07:20:28) API: so is the one making the proposal the one that will set the timeframe
  55 (07:21:32) joanie: okay, so how about this:
  56 (07:21:40) joanie: We have to go back to meet with the board anyway
  57 (07:22:00) joanie: let's turn "To Be Discussed" into something else like "To Be Scheduled" (or whatever)
  58 (07:22:07) joanie: clean up the description
  59 (07:22:18) joanie: and when we go back to the Board, we can ask them
  60 (07:22:32) API: aha, 
  61 (07:22:35) joanie: since the Foundation (and Board) are the ones who put out the rfp in the first place
  62 (07:22:54) API: or we can just explain that we would prefer to check this task
  63 (07:22:58) API: after the other work
  64 (07:23:06) API: something like a dependency
  65 (07:23:22) joanie: maybe...
  66 (07:23:57) joanie: I'm thinking that if meego is all shiny and cool, and someone outside our team is working on its a11y, we might get collateral bug fixes ;-)
  67 (07:24:27) joanie: i.e. this isn't something we have time to do ourselves
  68 (07:24:53) joanie: but it would be nice to have an accessible solution for mobile devices
  69 (07:25:32) API: well yeah, this is the reason I added this to the roadmap
  70 (07:25:39) joanie: :-)
  71 (07:25:40) API: and about other things
  72 (07:25:48) API: I didn't include gnome shell on his own
  73 (07:26:00) joanie: that's fine
  74 (07:26:03) API: because on the bugfixing
  75 (07:26:08) API: project you already mentioned it
  76 (07:26:09) joanie: Orca's not included on its own on this roadmap
  77 (07:27:51) API: well, you have a link to Orca roadmap
  78 (07:28:10) API: that is something more detailed that the current gnome shell accessibility item on his roadmap
  79 (07:28:15) joanie: And you added one for gnome shell
  80 (07:28:18) joanie: ah
  81 (07:28:26) joanie: I wouldn't worry too much
  82 (07:28:59) joanie: I'm more concerned about the lack of Caribou details.
  83 (07:29:24) joanie: The gnome shell stuff is something that seems to be under control thanks to you
  84 (07:31:03) API: anyway in some cases like:
  85 (07:31:07) API: mproved and Increased Access to Applications, Toolkits, and Environments
  86 (07:31:30) API: this item has several big subitems
  87 (07:31:48) API: each subitem could worth a project on his own
  88 (07:32:07) joanie: yup
  89 (07:32:27) API: and now sure if someone without the context would know that
  90 (07:32:27) joanie: is that a good thing or a bad thing?
  91 (07:32:43) API: I mean that someone could thing that have the same relevance 
  92 (07:32:48) API: this item as a whole
  93 (07:32:55) API: and the atk item one
  94 (07:33:14) joanie: Well the Atk one is big
  95 (07:33:32) joanie: because it includes fixing the broken implementations
  96 (07:33:40) joanie: plus implementing the new stuff
  97 (07:34:24) joanie: I think *for the most part* each heading covers a relatively same-sized set of projects
  98 (07:34:36) joanie: but I could be wrong
  99 (07:35:14) API: aha, well, probably my brain is totally sleepy
 100 (07:35:21) joanie: mine is too
 101 (07:35:24) API: but right now I can't think in other task 
 102 (07:35:29) API: to add to the roadmap
 103 (07:35:55) API: at least one that we hadn't mentioned
 104 (07:36:01) API: (like caribou)
 105 (07:36:29) joanie: I assume eeejay is not around
 106 (07:41:39) API: 5 minutes waiting, I don't think so
 107 (07:41:52) joanie: lol
 108 (07:41:55) joanie: was worth a shot
 109 (07:42:11) API: well, anything else about roadmap?
 110 (07:42:33) joanie: one minor thing
 111 (07:42:46) joanie: I gave some more thought to how to indicate needs (funding)
 112 (07:42:51) joanie: and I'm thinking a separate doc
 113 (07:43:07) joanie: because this roadmap doesn't include everything the full team is doing
 114 (07:43:32) joanie: and rather than expect people to hunt down the info, I'd like to tie it all together
 115 (07:43:33) API: a separate doc for what?
 116 (07:43:42) joanie: identifying unfunded stuff
 117 (07:44:11) joanie: like much of Orca is still unfunded, and not even listed on this roadmap
 118 (07:44:32) joanie: And Caribou might be unfunded, but we don't know
 119 (07:45:30) API: hmm, if the purpose is declare which is funded and which not
 120 (07:45:39) API: why not put it directly on the roadmap?
 121 (07:45:54) joanie: because people would have to go to multiple roadmaps
 122 (07:46:27) joanie: There's all sorts of stuff, for instance, Orca team is doing that is NOT listed on the full team roadmap, because they are not full team goals
 123 (07:47:39) API: ah
 124 (07:48:02) API: so the current roadmap are things that it is required to do and unfunded
 125 (07:48:24) API: and you want another document with the things that are being done but funded?
 126 (07:48:41) joanie: no
 127 (07:50:32) ***joanie tries again
 128 (07:50:52) joanie: On the orca roadmap we have listed all sorts of things
 129 (07:50:54) joanie: some are funded
 130 (07:50:56) joanie: some are not
 131 (07:51:09) joanie: many of them (regardless of funding status) are NOT on the full team roadmap
 132 (07:51:17) joanie: because they are not full team goals
 133 (07:51:26) joanie: they only help us in Orca land
 134 (07:51:29) joanie: and no one else
 135 (07:51:41) joanie: that doesn't mean they don't need doing
 136 (07:51:47) joanie: nor does it mean they don't need funding
 137 (07:52:04) joanie: simply that I wanted to limit the full team roadmap to full team goals
 138 (07:52:22) joanie: like the full team needs and wants all the gnome 3 stuff accessible
 139 (07:52:33) joanie: and the full team needs and wants all the bugs in gnome fixed
 140 (07:52:39) joanie: and the full team wants more ATs
 141 (07:52:42) joanie: like speech recognition
 142 (07:52:48) API: so this document would include the items on the other roadmaps not included in the team roadmap?
 143 (07:52:53) joanie: yup
 144 (07:53:04) joanie: it wouldn't be roadmappy
 145 (07:53:16) joanie: it would be a way to identify where funding is needed
 146 (07:53:20) joanie: I still need to think abou tit
 147 (07:53:42) joanie: maybe each roadmap lists status and then we do a page that pulls together all the unfunded stuff
 148 (07:53:50) joanie: I'll give it some more thought
 149 (07:54:20) API: ok, probably I would understand it better when I started to read a draft of that
 150 (07:54:25) joanie: :-)
 151 (07:54:27) joanie: sorry 
 152 (07:54:30) API: so, again, anything else about roadmap?
 153 (07:54:35) joanie: lol nope
 154 (07:54:58) API: ok, so lets start miscellaneous time
 155 (07:55:14) API: do you really think that a weekly team meeting with just you and me makes sense?
 156 (07:55:18) joanie: lol
 157 (07:55:43) joanie: Well, I think that you and I talk when we need to talk
 158 (07:55:50) joanie: and that other weeks we have more people
 159 (07:56:06) mgoprse: No one else here? SOrry--I was kind of dozing off / oblivious to the time
 160 (07:56:07) danigm: I don't talk, but I read
 161 (07:56:25) joanie: I will say that now that clocks have moved back an hour, this time sucks for me
 162 (07:56:36) API: ah danigm please to see you ;)
 163 (07:56:44) ***joanie waves to danigm
 164 (07:56:51) API: as I made the question "anyone's there"
 165 (07:57:02) API: at the beginning without answer
 166 (07:57:08) API: I thought that we were alone
 167 (07:58:06) API: well, anything else?
 168 (07:58:27) joanie: prioritizing hackfests as a topic next week?
 169 (07:58:29) API: because I will start to be really busy 9:00
 170 (07:59:53) joanie: well, it's 9:00
 171 (07:59:56) joanie: go be busy
 172 (08:00:52) API: well meeting over