Nov 04 16:03:05 well, people its meeting time Nov 04 16:03:26 api: hi Nov 04 16:03:36 hi API (I made it). Nov 04 16:03:40 slee, hi, good to see that you are still alive ;) Nov 04 16:03:50 * clown waves at everyone. Nov 04 16:04:00 * joanie nods hello Nov 04 16:04:05 yeah, thanks, been pretty busy elsewhere Nov 04 16:04:18 but GNOME always on my mind Nov 04 16:04:52 * API we should made a elvis cover introducing GNOME on the lyrics Nov 04 16:04:54 anyway Nov 04 16:04:57 lets start Nov 04 16:05:06 * API checking agenda Nov 04 16:05:12 1.Unity and GNOME 3.0 (hoping TheMuso or Penelope to be there) Nov 04 16:05:22 so TheMuso and Pendulum are you here? Nov 04 16:05:41 on the previous meeting we made a summary Nov 04 16:05:44 * mchua is here, working with heidi's class on figuring out how to get their caribou work more integrated into the gnome community. Nov 04 16:05:48 of the state Nov 04 16:05:59 of Unity Nov 04 16:06:11 <-- Red Hatter, not usually a GNOME person but helps get college classrooms into the culture of FOSS, so I'm here this week & next Nov 04 16:06:14 * mchua sits back and listens Nov 04 16:06:34 mchua, awesome, we would try to talk about it on the "reminders" section Nov 04 16:06:34 * heidi Heidi is also here to learn more about the hackathon and GNOME things Nov 04 16:06:39 we included that on the agenda Nov 04 16:06:41 * jpwhiting (~jeremy@75-169-192-108.slkc.qwest.net) has joined #a11y Nov 04 16:06:48 THank you! Nov 04 16:07:05 * korn1 (~korn@75-25-140-220.lightspeed.okldca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #a11y Nov 04 16:07:23 http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Minutes/20101028#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting Nov 04 16:07:50 where this "next meeting" is the current one ;) Nov 04 16:08:10 well, it seems that TheMuso and Pendulum are not here Nov 04 16:08:22 so just mention, that I still have on my TODO create a wiki page Nov 04 16:08:31 to a11y things that are needed to track Nov 04 16:08:41 but not directly gnome 3.0 issues Nov 04 16:08:52 next item on agenda Nov 04 16:08:54 Bastien Nocera mail about loading gtk modules (correct bugzilla?) Nov 04 16:09:00 mgorse, you here? Nov 04 16:09:28 I'm here Nov 04 16:09:42 ey Nov 04 16:09:58 mgorse, have you seen Bastien mails and bugs? Nov 04 16:10:21 btw, gnome bugzilla is the proper place to create bugs for at-spi2? Nov 04 16:10:44 Good question. Are his bugs on there? Nov 04 16:11:54 Bastien created all those bugs on gnome bugzilla Nov 04 16:12:18 this is the at-spi-atk one: Nov 04 16:12:20 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633194 Nov 04 16:13:36 so mgorse, independently of require to decide the correct bugzilla Nov 04 16:14:01 will you have time to review those bugs? Nov 04 16:14:22 Okay; I'll take a look. Thanks for the pointer. Nov 04 16:15:00 mgorse, the mail is this one: Nov 04 16:15:03 http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-devel/2010-October/msg00014.html Nov 04 16:15:10 oops. sorry I'm here, just forgot I was on IRC Nov 04 16:15:28 mgorse, other question: atk2 bugs are for gnome bugzilla right? Nov 04 16:16:35 I guess so Nov 04 16:16:42 Are we upping the atk version to 2.0? Nov 04 16:17:31 mgorse, ups sorry Nov 04 16:17:35 you are right Nov 04 16:17:38 atk is 1.XX Nov 04 16:17:54 too used to have this 2.XXX on all gnome modules Nov 04 16:18:02 Anyway, I think that we should just move the at-spi bugizlla to bgo, since people are going to file bugs there anyway. I'll plan on figuring out how to do that at the summit. Nov 04 16:18:40 mgorse, ok, thanks Nov 04 16:18:55 I guess that it could be ask to bgo for another component Nov 04 16:19:03 mgorse: not to distract everyone from the topic, but will you be at the Boston Summit? Nov 04 16:19:03 sorry, another product Nov 04 16:19:11 or just add other compoinet on the current at-spi Nov 04 16:19:12 OgMaciel: yes Nov 04 16:19:24 mgorse: cool! Maybe we can get together then Nov 04 16:19:24 OgMaciel, http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Minutes/20101028#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting Nov 04 16:19:30 there are a point for boston summit Nov 04 16:19:41 * OgMaciel reads Nov 04 16:19:49 ok, thanks mgorse Nov 04 16:19:53 Pendulum, as you are here Nov 04 16:20:01 the Unity point was just here to ask Nov 04 16:20:14 if there are anything else you want to add Nov 04 16:20:23 you= TheMuso Nov 04 16:20:26 + Pendulum Nov 04 16:20:36 do you want just an overview of the current plan? Nov 04 16:21:17 well, there are a summary on the previous meeting Nov 04 16:21:28 http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Minutes/20101028#Unity Nov 04 16:21:36 Pendulum, we forgot something? Nov 04 16:22:17 not that i'm seeing, but I can give mini updates on a couple bits Nov 04 16:22:30 last week we were being told the compiz port should be done in the next 2 weeks Nov 04 16:22:46 so that should be done very soon Nov 04 16:23:41 the general desktop team is going to be working on things like keyboard navigation (which unity currently doesn't support) so that Luke can really focus on the accessibility framework. They've also assigned a person to work with him, but I honestly can't remember the guy's name Nov 04 16:24:12 and I'm going to be coordinating all the testing/documentation/whatever else is needed so that Luke can mostly concentrate on devel Nov 04 16:24:35 * slee thanks Penelope for being liason with Ubuntu Nov 04 16:24:38 Pendulum, ok, thanks for the update Nov 04 16:24:46 I think that we can move to 3. Nov 04 16:24:47 we are going to try to work it so that he can make the 7:00 UTC meetings and I make the 15:00 ones here, but we'll see what happens Nov 04 16:25:00 you're welcome :) Nov 04 16:25:13 and I'm pretty easy to find and poke if anyone has other questions/requests/etc. Nov 04 16:25:14 well, one of the reason of the flip-flop timetable Nov 04 16:25:19 is allow that at least Nov 04 16:25:30 all people can attend 2 meetings per month Nov 04 16:25:35 yeah Nov 04 16:25:40 Pendulum, thanks Nov 04 16:25:44 so moving Nov 04 16:25:48 3. Port to gsettings Nov 04 16:25:55 this is related to Bastien mail Nov 04 16:26:02 as you know there are a plan Nov 04 16:26:09 to move from gconf to gsettings Nov 04 16:26:13 so this point is just a update Nov 04 16:26:17 and a question Nov 04 16:26:27 joanie, how about your plans on orca Nov 04 16:26:28 ? Nov 04 16:26:43 it's on aleiva's to-do list Nov 04 16:26:56 they are finishing up the work on profiles Nov 04 16:27:01 which includes a gconf backend Nov 04 16:27:15 and the other, related work is next after that as I understand it Nov 04 16:27:18 * joanie pokes aleiva Nov 04 16:28:40 API well, I'm thinking aleiva is away from his desk and/or preparing to come to Boston Nov 04 16:28:45 joanie, ok Nov 04 16:28:47 so I will get a status update out of Ale Nov 04 16:28:52 but let's move on Nov 04 16:28:55 mgorse, any plan on at-spi2 to move to gsettings? Nov 04 16:29:22 although probably the problem is that you have enough work on your own... Nov 04 16:30:12 API: I should probably look into that for 2.31.2. I wonder if we also want to port at-spi-corba Nov 04 16:30:40 mgorse, this is a good question... Nov 04 16:30:45 Need to look and figure out if we have an accessibility key defined for gsettings somewhere Nov 04 16:30:58 there are a exact plan of at-spi and at-spi2 cohabitation for the future months? Nov 04 16:31:37 gconf was being used to enable at-spi-corba, so they should probaby be done together in case someone wants to use the CORBA version Nov 04 16:31:47 * davidb (~dtb@mozca02.ca.mozilla.com) has joined #a11y Nov 04 16:32:11 are distros shipping GNOME 3 supposed to ship at-spi-corba? Nov 04 16:32:43 mgorse, API: not sure if this is relevant, but ... gnome-shell is distributing a set of gsettings schemas that have "a11y" in their names. Nov 04 16:33:23 fer: it's deprecated, so I guess the plan is for it not to be needed, but I see no reason it shouldn't still be around in case a distribution wants the option of packaging it Nov 04 16:33:28 clown, hmmm, probably related with the accessibility item that they added on the top panel Nov 04 16:33:33 names like "...a11y.applications", ...a11y.keyboard, and ..a11y.mouse Nov 04 16:33:37 I'm not sure if Ubuntu will continue to use it by default in its next release, for instance Nov 04 16:33:44 API, quite possibly. Nov 04 16:33:58 * clown looking at one of them. Nov 04 16:34:02 well, people, I guess that there are a lot of doubts here Nov 04 16:34:09 so lets close this point as Nov 04 16:34:27 mgorse: I am asking just to know if it is worth the effort to port it to gsettings Nov 04 16:34:27 "we need to investigate that, hope to give an update on the next meeting" Nov 04 16:34:59 fer: I think it depends on how much work it would be. There are only one or two gconf keys that at-spi uses, though Nov 04 16:35:44 * clown notes that the keyboard schema has preferences for bounce keys, sticky keys, mouse keys, and so on. Nov 04 16:35:58 ok, guys, anything else? or we could move to next point Nov 04 16:36:13 as I said, the weekly meeting is not the moment to investigate things Nov 04 16:36:34 lets say that due this weekly meeting we will try to answer all these questions Nov 04 16:36:36 deal? Nov 04 16:36:46 fine with me Nov 04 16:37:07 ok, next point Nov 04 16:37:14 Google Code-in (hoping Bryen to be there) Nov 04 16:37:18 Bryen are you here? Nov 04 16:38:21 * OgMaciel steps out for a few Nov 04 16:38:33 * jvesouza has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) Nov 04 16:39:20 well, as we are somewhat out of time Nov 04 16:39:23 next item Nov 04 16:39:28 5. Boston Summit Nov 04 16:40:06 I guess that mgorse joanie aleiva will be there Nov 04 16:40:10 heidi? Nov 04 16:40:20 I forgot someone? Nov 04 16:40:26 * clown won't be there :-( Nov 04 16:41:35 * fer neither Nov 04 16:41:51 API: Hi Nov 04 16:41:58 Yes, I'll be there! Nov 04 16:42:00 * joanie frowns at both clown and fer -- and API to boot! -- for not coming Nov 04 16:42:04 And current count is six students Nov 04 16:42:25 I was going to try, but I think I'm not going to go in efforts to keep others from getting my ubuflu Nov 04 16:42:50 I'll be there to help be a hackathon guide for Heidi's students, as will sdziallas (who does similar work to me & is also in the Boston area) Nov 04 16:42:59 * joanie notes that 'ubuflu' sounds even better than 'martian death flu' Nov 04 16:43:17 (basically, helping them get used to bug trackers, git, etc. so they know the rhythms of how open source dev works, since we aren't GNOME hackers ourselves) Nov 04 16:43:23 (we're Fedora people) Nov 04 16:43:35 that's awesome mchua Nov 04 16:44:21 * mchua is hoping to help the wnec students set themselves up as "the caribou experts" so y'all know how to draw on them as a node of awesomeness in GNOME-land, and they'll be able to communicate with you remotely and make things happen. Nov 04 16:44:54 it seems like the culture/communication learning is what needs to happen, because there's a huge willingness to hack here, it's mostly getting the group in the loop and used to working within a FOSS community instead of just within a classroom. Nov 04 16:45:05 but Heidi's got them learning about irc, etc. so they're off to a really good start, from what I've seen. Nov 04 16:45:52 mchua: awesome indeed Nov 04 16:46:14 yay! Nov 04 16:47:07 Heidi, I received an email from a student named Kyle Kurtenbach whose interested in working on Caribou, but is looking for directions. I'm tempted to forward the email to you -- is that okay? Nov 04 16:47:18 API btw, I think aleiva's main reason for adding that agenda item was just to see if there's things that we (who will be in attendance) should do or say (e.g. on behalf of the rest of the team who is not) Nov 04 16:47:21 clown: Absolutely! Nov 04 16:47:33 heidi, email address? Nov 04 16:47:34 * OgMaciel is back Nov 04 16:47:43 :-) Oh, that would be helpful: hellis@wnec.edu Nov 04 16:47:59 about the summit, I was wondering if there's anything the Board can do to help out with a11y Nov 04 16:48:30 heidi, thanks! And, I'll reply to him saying that you might contact him -- any objection to my giving him your email? Nov 04 16:48:53 OgMaciel: Since you and Brian Cameron and Stormy will all be there, it might be worth us meeting at some point during the summit Nov 04 16:48:56 Please do give him my email. Nov 04 16:49:04 joanie: sounds good! Nov 04 16:49:09 heidi, awesome! Nov 04 16:49:17 I like students! Nov 04 16:49:19 joanie: I'm arriving Saturday morning and staying until Sunday evening Nov 04 16:49:39 OgMaciel: So noted. Thank you. Nov 04 16:50:51 well, people almost 10 min talking about Boston Summit Nov 04 16:50:54 joanie: it will be my pleasure to help. Please introduce yourself to me when you see me Nov 04 16:50:57 bac Nov 04 16:50:58 any other comments, questions and so on? Nov 04 16:51:00 back Nov 04 16:51:07 well, flip-flop is also bad for me ;-) Nov 04 16:51:07 lol aleiva hey Nov 04 16:51:10 I'm easy to spot: only board member on crutches :) Nov 04 16:51:11 * clown waves at aleiva Nov 04 16:51:28 clown: :-) Nov 04 16:51:32 OgMaciel: I'm easier to spot: I'm female and at a gnome event Nov 04 16:51:37 sorry group Nov 04 16:51:39 hehehe Nov 04 16:51:56 joanie: lol Nov 04 16:51:58 aleiva, we were just finishing the Boston Summit item Nov 04 16:52:05 the one you proposed last week ;) Nov 04 16:52:06 API: I'm reading the buffer Nov 04 16:52:10 you want to add something? Nov 04 16:52:20 API: yeah, sorry I really wanted to attend this meeting Nov 04 16:52:33 aleiva, no problem Nov 04 16:53:02 16:47 < joanie> API btw, I think aleiva's main reason for adding that agenda item was just to see if there's things that we (who will be in attendance) should do or say (e.g. on behalf of the rest of the team who is not) Nov 04 16:53:15 that's exactly what I want with the boston item Nov 04 16:53:34 ok, I guess that the mission was a success Nov 04 16:53:40 we need something as group to do at boston with other developers/groups? Nov 04 16:54:10 well, gnome shell developers asked us if we are going to be there Nov 04 16:54:13 meet with the board Nov 04 16:54:16 due this "orca integration thing" Nov 04 16:54:29 so joanie can talk with Mccan Nov 04 16:54:36 API: yes, I'm going to mail them to meet in the summit or later Nov 04 16:54:38 * API not sure if this is the correct spelling Nov 04 16:54:44 and the board yes Nov 04 16:54:47 we need to resolve the gnome-shell thing Nov 04 16:55:04 you mean the gnome-shell/orca thing? Nov 04 16:55:09 clown: absolutely Nov 04 16:55:26 * clown notes that gnome-shell is big, and actually many things. Nov 04 16:55:48 yes it is behaving like an ameba, eating all Nov 04 16:55:50 * clown thanks aleiva for the clarification Nov 04 16:55:51 clown: yes there's some issues about integration Nov 04 16:55:51 anyway Nov 04 16:56:05 I think that we should close the boston summit item Nov 04 16:56:14 ok, good for me Nov 04 16:56:28 6. GNOME 3.0 updates Nov 04 16:56:34 I'll use minutes and info from joanie, thanks for managing this Nov 04 16:56:40 well, joanie is starting to sort the page Nov 04 16:56:49 not time for full review Nov 04 16:56:50 almost done actually Nov 04 16:56:51 :-) Nov 04 16:56:57 but not quite Nov 04 16:57:00 8. Reminders: Nov 04 16:57:00 * Nov 04 16:57:00 Did you update your section(s) of the GNOME 3.0 page? Nov 04 16:57:00 * Nov 04 16:57:00 Do you have feedback for Heidi and her students regarding Caribou Requirements? Nov 04 16:57:12 so please, anyone reading... Nov 04 16:57:25 and just three minutes left Nov 04 16:57:31 so miscellaneous time Nov 04 16:57:39 anyone wants to add something not included on the agenda? Nov 04 16:57:46 (or included but not mentioned yet) Nov 04 16:58:09 testing! Nov 04 16:58:22 fer: explain that Nov 04 16:58:40 I would like to have some kind of plan of GNOME 3 a11y testing Nov 04 16:58:51 nowadays most of us are not running a whole GNOME 3 desktop Nov 04 16:59:03 just the modules we develop, and we do "jailed" testing Nov 04 16:59:23 it would be nice to do some kind of complete smoke testing Nov 04 16:59:55 fer:The aegis project I'm working on is intended for that. Nov 04 17:00:03 great! Nov 04 17:00:32 bnitz: can we start to using it? Nov 04 17:00:35 fer:But I face the same problem, it's difficult to test a11y in an integrated desktop if the integrated desktop isn't complete. Nov 04 17:00:51 bnitz: is it gnome 3.0 compliant? Nov 04 17:01:03 aleiva:Right now it only tests some really basic stuff like menus and labels. Nov 04 17:01:59 bnitz: I understanded at AEGIS hackfest that you started to test mago, can we use it to record some desktop-user functional tests? Nov 04 17:02:24 bnitz: the main issue I see with your testing platform is that it's not released Nov 04 17:02:32 aleiva:I'm using mago. AFAIK ldtp2 (which mago requires) does not yet have working record facility. Nov 04 17:02:34 bnitz: if you release it we can start to cooperate and growth it Nov 04 17:02:40 fer: are you ok with this idea? Nov 04 17:03:09 aleiva: that is great Nov 04 17:03:10 * aleiva sorry for manage this topic but I'm very interested in a full a11y/dekstop testing platform Nov 04 17:03:48 aleiva:I agree (it needs to be released). I have to release it in such away that my employer and the mago people are happy with. But it will be released. Nov 04 17:03:49 but I would like also to get some developers to give a try at running a complete gnome 3 desktop Nov 04 17:04:20 fer: we can talk about that, we are here (my company) ver interested in this idea Nov 04 17:04:25 very* Nov 04 17:04:28 * clown wonders if running gnome-shell is running a "complete gnome 3 desktop" Nov 04 17:04:29 great Nov 04 17:04:39 * bnitz was wondering that too. Nov 04 17:04:48 clown: depending what does it include in the jhbuild module Nov 04 17:04:56 gtk3? at-spi2-*? Nov 04 17:05:02 fer: up to 25 modules and counting... Nov 04 17:05:05 clown:You should probably also have dbus atspi. Nov 04 17:05:05 at-spi2 fundamentally I think Nov 04 17:05:08 anyway Nov 04 17:05:13 we can talk about this later Nov 04 17:05:16 fer: definitely gtk3 Nov 04 17:05:26 I think is a big topic to discuss in the meeting Nov 04 17:05:27 ) Orca Nov 04 17:05:27 * Internacionalizar los nuevos diálogos de Orca, ya que posiblemente nos va a costar más tiempo finalizar la integración de los desarrollos en el master que traducir los 4 literales que hay nuevos, los hacemos y lo metemos en el paquete a distribuir en Guadalinfo. Nov 04 17:05:32 sorry Nov 04 17:05:35 buffer paste Nov 04 17:05:37 :-D Nov 04 17:05:38 lol Nov 04 17:05:41 :-) Nov 04 17:05:48 * clown loves Spanish. Nov 04 17:05:56 * joanie is learning it slowly Nov 04 17:05:57 my thumb push the trackpad :-D Nov 04 17:06:08 * clown but notes that he can't pronounce worth a darn. Nov 04 17:06:08 API: can we move on? Nov 04 17:06:33 aleiva, move on would mean finish the meeting ;) Nov 04 17:06:35 or finish the meeting to start to discuss the test thing out of the meet ? Nov 04 17:06:39 API: yeah Nov 04 17:06:44 meeting* Nov 04 17:06:58 A quick note form me Nov 04 17:07:03 Project:Possibility will be doing 3 SS12s next year : CSUN, USC & UCLA Nov 04 17:07:15 and i'm looking out for project ideas Nov 04 17:07:41 what are SS12s? Nov 04 17:07:50 will chat to hedi and Bryen and see if we can figure about more GNOME projects liek Caribout last year Nov 04 17:08:08 fer - weekend hackathons for students Nov 04 17:08:23 they are CS students but we get them to do a11y projects Nov 04 17:08:26 thanks :) Nov 04 17:08:39 lasts year we had a caribouu team who won Nov 04 17:08:52 and presented at CSUN Nov 04 17:09:05 you are planning to do something similar in this CSUN? Nov 04 17:09:18 so we need small exciting project ideas that can be done in a weekend Nov 04 17:09:38 but great if learn open source skills too from a small feature to a GNOME module Nov 04 17:10:20 API: yes possibly - CSUN Northridge are having their own SS12 as well Nov 04 17:10:32 even though they don't really have an ACM who usually do the work Nov 04 17:10:53 A 3 way face off at CSUN conf would be cool Nov 04 17:11:03 and of course CSUN would want to win :-) Nov 04 17:11:24 and USC UCLA are rivals Nov 04 17:11:58 Are GNOME planning a booth at CSUN again? Nov 04 17:12:40 slee, yes AFAIK, Nov 04 17:12:54 at least I think that we booked it Nov 04 17:13:01 eeejay has more information, I guess Nov 04 17:13:12 yeah? Nov 04 17:13:36 yeah, it's booked Nov 04 17:13:39 i submitted a paper Nov 04 17:13:43 sorry i am mia Nov 04 17:13:54 eeejay, ok thanks Nov 04 17:13:55 been juggling a lot of projects Nov 04 17:14:12 eeejay - hi Nov 04 17:14:14 that's good Nov 04 17:14:23 it was great last year Nov 04 17:14:25 hope to get back to things next weekend, havea huge action in the next few days Nov 04 17:14:37 well, slee, anything else, 15 minutes above the time Nov 04 17:14:37 eeejay: np Nov 04 17:14:46 I think that it is a good momet to close the meeting ;) Nov 04 17:14:54 s/momet/moment Nov 04 17:14:57 * sebsauer has quit (Remote closed the connection) Nov 04 17:14:58 * slee hands back to chair Nov 04 17:15:02 * gk4 (~gk4@32.97.110.58) has left #a11y Nov 04 17:15:13 thanks, API Nov 04 17:15:21 +1 Nov 04 17:15:38 ok, so meeting is over Nov 04 17:15:42 thanks everybody Nov 04 17:15:54 feel free to talk of whatever you want now