Attachment '20101028_log.txt'
Download 1 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 28 09:14:12 2010
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3 Oct 28 09:14:12 * Now talking on #a11y
4 Oct 28 09:14:35 <API> sorry the delay
5 Oct 28 09:14:48 <joanie> API no worries. I needed more coffee anyway.
6 Oct 28 09:14:52 <API> what have I miss?
7 Oct 28 09:14:58 <API> missed
8 Oct 28 09:14:59 <joanie> Me getting coffee
9 Oct 28 09:15:08 <joanie> It ain't a party (or a meeting) without you
10 Oct 28 09:15:11 <API> impressive
11 Oct 28 09:15:18 <API> now I feel guilty
12 Oct 28 09:15:35 <joanie> Don't. But having lived the Spanish life for a few weeks, this time is early for Spain
13 Oct 28 09:15:38 <joanie> so we should discuss
14 Oct 28 09:15:45 <joanie> but we have a full agenda already so....
15 Oct 28 09:16:01 <API> joanie, shouldn't be early, I usually I'm in the office early
16 Oct 28 09:16:06 <API> anyway ...
17 Oct 28 09:16:08 <API> yes agenda
18 Oct 28 09:16:13 <API> first point
19 Oct 28 09:16:17 <API> the big new of the week
20 Oct 28 09:16:27 <API> Unity as default on ubuntu desktop
21 Oct 28 09:16:35 <API> not only netbooks
22 Oct 28 09:16:41 * joanie chuckles
23 Oct 28 09:17:23 <API> we already talked about it on the channel
24 Oct 28 09:17:29 <API> but TheMuso anything else to add?
25 Oct 28 09:17:34 * bnitz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
26 Oct 28 09:18:47 <joanie> API I think TheMuso is at UDS (or traveling back)
27 Oct 28 09:18:59 <joanie> UDS was an east coast event. It's 03:19 here
28 Oct 28 09:19:09 <joanie> So.... For the purpose of minutes
29 Oct 28 09:19:23 <API> yeah
30 Oct 28 09:19:25 <API> well
31 Oct 28 09:19:30 <API> for the purpose of minutes
32 Oct 28 09:19:37 <API> TheMuso, Luke Yelavich
33 Oct 28 09:19:43 <joanie> TheMuso is going to be leading a11y efforts. Apparently Canonical had the good sense to realize Unity ain't accessible and that this is indeed a problem.
34 Oct 28 09:19:45 <API> will work on Unity accessibitlity
35 Oct 28 09:19:46 <joanie> oops
36 Oct 28 09:19:49 <API> ups going on
37 Oct 28 09:19:49 <joanie> go ahead
38 Oct 28 09:20:16 * API deadlock
39 Oct 28 09:20:24 * joanie gives the floor to API
40 Oct 28 09:20:34 <API> well, it is only required to add
41 Oct 28 09:20:48 <API> that although Canonical has assigned Luke to work on it
42 Oct 28 09:20:57 <API> he still requires to check the code
43 Oct 28 09:21:27 <API> and that the current accessibility support is almost zero
44 Oct 28 09:21:53 <API> in the same way, they plan to move from mutter to
45 Oct 28 09:22:00 * bnitz (~bnitz@79.97.181.9) has joined #a11y
46 Oct 28 09:22:09 <API> compiz
47 Oct 28 09:22:28 <API> unity developers say that this is not exactly start from scratch
48 Oct 28 09:22:42 <API> as they split the view from the logic
49 Oct 28 09:22:46 <API> but IMHO
50 Oct 28 09:22:57 <API> it will still require a lot of work
51 Oct 28 09:23:01 <API> hmmm
52 Oct 28 09:23:06 <API> another good question is
53 Oct 28 09:23:15 <API> as unity will have different views
54 Oct 28 09:23:20 <API> the current one is mutter
55 Oct 28 09:23:43 <API> they plan to maintain several "view path"? or they will deprecate mutter?
56 Oct 28 09:23:53 <API> well, we could ask TheMuso in following meeting
57 Oct 28 09:23:59 <joanie> sounds good
58 Oct 28 09:24:01 <API> joanie, anything else?
59 Oct 28 09:24:04 <joanie> Yeah
60 Oct 28 09:24:55 <joanie> Penelope -- I just blanked out on her IRC nick -- has volunteered to be our liaison between the two communities. And is willing to report during the weeks she can attend our meeting.
61 Oct 28 09:24:58 <joanie> i.e.
62 Oct 28 09:25:05 <joanie> We're not putting this on our plate
63 Oct 28 09:25:09 <joanie> since we have no room for it
64 Oct 28 09:25:19 <joanie> But Penelope is coming to the rescue
65 Oct 28 09:25:36 <joanie> between her and TheMuso, hopefully this will not hurt our users too much
66 Oct 28 09:25:45 <joanie> and we can keep focused on gnome-shell and other gnome 3 issues
67 Oct 28 09:25:52 <joanie> I will add
68 Oct 28 09:25:59 <joanie> that Orca users are starting to ask questions
69 Oct 28 09:26:18 <API> and some people on ubuntu accessibility
70 Oct 28 09:26:22 <joanie> I'm hoping TheMuso or Penelope can start fielding those as I don't have answers
71 Oct 28 09:27:03 * joanie is done
72 Oct 28 09:27:25 <API> joanie, taking into account this comment
73 Oct 28 09:27:29 <API> <joanie> and we can keep focused on gnome-shell and other gnome 3 issues
74 Oct 28 09:27:37 <API> I have a crazy idea to add this issue
75 Oct 28 09:27:37 <API> to
76 Oct 28 09:27:42 <API> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3#Other_End_User_Touch_Points
77 Oct 28 09:27:52 <API> after all, we already have there evince
78 Oct 28 09:28:00 <joanie> Evince is a gnome module
79 Oct 28 09:28:07 <API> and evince accessibility is not exactly a gnome 3 problem
80 Oct 28 09:28:08 <joanie> What I would suggest we do
81 Oct 28 09:28:20 <joanie> Is create a new page
82 Oct 28 09:28:24 <API> is a gnome2-gnome3
83 Oct 28 09:28:25 <joanie> for parallel issues
84 Oct 28 09:28:31 <joanie> fair enough (2 v 3)
85 Oct 28 09:28:36 <API> ah ok
86 Oct 28 09:28:39 <joanie> maybe move evince there too
87 Oct 28 09:28:42 <joanie> I stand corrected
88 Oct 28 09:28:46 <joanie> regardless....
89 Oct 28 09:28:48 <joanie> Let's make a new page
90 Oct 28 09:28:57 <joanie> and link to it prominently (near the top) of the gnome 3 page
91 Oct 28 09:28:58 * msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y
92 Oct 28 09:29:04 <joanie> I am not saying this are non-issues
93 Oct 28 09:29:15 <joanie> but I really want to keep the gnome 3 page focused on gnome 3
94 Oct 28 09:29:26 <joanie> so that we can use it to point to the Board and other community members
95 Oct 28 09:29:28 <API> ok, makes sense
96 Oct 28 09:29:33 <joanie> when they ask "how's it going?"
97 Oct 28 09:29:39 <joanie> because they have -- and they will -- ask
98 Oct 28 09:29:58 <joanie> while we're on the subject
99 Oct 28 09:30:19 <joanie> I might be tempted to move the items that are not a problem to the bottom of the page
100 Oct 28 09:30:27 <joanie> i.e. the sort order should not be alphabetical
101 Oct 28 09:30:35 <joanie> it should be by what is critical and not done
102 Oct 28 09:30:36 <joanie> imho
103 Oct 28 09:31:35 <API> well, right now we don't have a alphabetical order
104 Oct 28 09:32:06 <joanie> heh
105 Oct 28 09:32:15 <joanie> okay, then.... having some order would be good
106 Oct 28 09:32:17 <joanie> :-)
107 Oct 28 09:32:25 <joanie> I vote for it by critical/statuc
108 Oct 28 09:32:27 <joanie> status even
109 Oct 28 09:32:59 <API> ok,
110 Oct 28 09:33:00 <joanie> so action items:
111 Oct 28 09:33:07 <joanie> I'll resort if you make a new page
112 Oct 28 09:34:07 <aleiva> to vote it?
113 Oct 28 09:34:11 <joanie> (that was a question. Question marks are officially optional)
114 Oct 28 09:34:15 <joanie> aleiva: morning :-)
115 Oct 28 09:34:20 <joanie> to vote it??
116 Oct 28 09:34:45 <API> to vote what?
117 Oct 28 09:34:49 <aleiva> iÂsorry, a new nopage foir the current items?
118 Oct 28 09:35:02 <joanie> aleiva:
119 Oct 28 09:35:03 <aleiva> wow, this is not my keyboard
120 Oct 28 09:35:04 <joanie> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3
121 Oct 28 09:35:09 <joanie> two things
122 Oct 28 09:35:23 <joanie> 1. That should be just for GNOME 3 (unity, and gnome 2 issues don't belong)
123 Oct 28 09:35:32 <joanie> for that we should have a different (new) page on the wiki
124 Oct 28 09:35:55 <joanie> 2. The items remaining on the gnome 3 page should be resorted so that the red (high risk) items are at the top
125 Oct 28 09:35:59 <joanie> the medium risks next
126 Oct 28 09:36:06 <joanie> and low risk/completed items at the bottom
127 Oct 28 09:36:09 <aleiva> ah ok
128 Oct 28 09:36:19 <API> joanie, the only problem with that is the current
129 Oct 28 09:36:22 <API> classification
130 Oct 28 09:36:23 <joanie> so I'm proposing API make the new page and I resort (since he and I are both busy)
131 Oct 28 09:36:29 <API> between accessibility stack
132 Oct 28 09:36:32 <joanie> API will get nuked
133 Oct 28 09:36:33 <joanie> OR
134 Oct 28 09:36:38 <joanie> will persist under the levels
135 Oct 28 09:36:40 <API> and ui dedicated to accessibility support
136 Oct 28 09:36:40 <aleiva> but to mark the risk we need to do a brainstorming or voting session or ask to the maintainer
137 Oct 28 09:36:46 <joanie> High Risk -> Stack, UI, etc
138 Oct 28 09:36:55 <joanie> aleiva: look at the page
139 Oct 28 09:37:02 <API> aleiva, we already have this fancy red, yellow green thing
140 Oct 28 09:37:14 <API> so, at least read things should be on the top
141 Oct 28 09:37:21 <aleiva> make sense
142 Oct 28 09:37:33 <bnitz> gnome3 issues on one page general/future proofing issues on another
143 Oct 28 09:37:43 <bnitz> I agree, I like the ordering by risk as well.
144 Oct 28 09:37:53 <joanie> I think we are all in agreement
145 Oct 28 09:37:58 <aleiva> yup
146 Oct 28 09:37:59 <joanie> 1. Order it by risk
147 Oct 28 09:38:05 <aleiva> thanks for the explanation guys
148 Oct 28 09:38:09 <joanie> 2. Under each risk, maintain the classifications
149 Oct 28 09:38:09 <bnitz> I'm even thinking accerciser should be medium risk so other things don't have to get any redder.
150 Oct 28 09:38:29 <joanie> bnitz: Each module maintainer is the primary person to update risk
151 Oct 28 09:38:33 <joanie> feel free to edit the page
152 Oct 28 09:38:33 <bnitz> ok
153 Oct 28 09:39:21 <joanie> API to wrap this topic up.... You okay with the proposed action items?
154 Oct 28 09:39:31 <joanie> (splitting the 2 tasks up between us)
155 Oct 28 09:40:03 <API> joanie, yep
156 Oct 28 09:41:23 <API> so, this improvised agenda item
157 Oct 28 09:41:29 <API> "where to put things"
158 Oct 28 09:41:32 <API> is finished
159 Oct 28 09:41:33 <API> right?
160 Oct 28 09:41:39 * joanie nods
161 Oct 28 09:41:47 <aleiva> moving on
162 Oct 28 09:42:08 <API> ok, as it started with the unity thing
163 Oct 28 09:42:13 <API> anything else about unity?
164 Oct 28 09:43:05 <aleiva> not from my side
165 Oct 28 09:43:09 <API> joanie, ?
166 Oct 28 09:43:17 <joanie> No sir. I'm set.
167 Oct 28 09:43:36 <API> ok, lets move to point 2.
168 Oct 28 09:43:53 <API> Bastien mail about the new way to load gtk modules
169 Oct 28 09:44:22 <API> this include at-spi changes
170 Oct 28 09:44:29 <API> but mgorse is not here
171 Oct 28 09:44:42 <API> the good thing is that after ask Bastien
172 Oct 28 09:44:50 <API> the current weird hacks
173 Oct 28 09:44:54 <API> used on firefox
174 Oct 28 09:45:02 <API> and hypothetically on the future on gnome-shell
175 Oct 28 09:45:10 <API> NO_GAIL and NO_AT_BRIDGE
176 Oct 28 09:45:15 <API> should still works
177 Oct 28 09:45:24 <API> but the summary of this point
178 Oct 28 09:45:39 <API> is that at-spi and at-spi2 require this little changes
179 Oct 28 09:45:47 <API> I also needed to ask mgorse
180 Oct 28 09:45:58 <API> if at-spi2 bugs should be reported to freedesktop
181 Oct 28 09:46:00 <API> bugzilla
182 Oct 28 09:46:12 <API> as Bastien uploaded the patch to gnome bugzilla
183 Oct 28 09:46:32 <API> nothing else
184 Oct 28 09:46:43 <joanie> Thanks for staying on top of that API!
185 Oct 28 09:46:47 <API> (as we need mgorse)
186 Oct 28 09:46:55 <API> comments, questions, doubts?
187 Oct 28 09:47:33 <bnitz> API One question, is this change required for all components, including apps like orca and accerciser?
188 Oct 28 09:47:49 <API> bnitz, no
189 Oct 28 09:47:58 <API> only on at-spi
190 Oct 28 09:48:01 <API> basically
191 Oct 28 09:48:05 <API> this changes means
192 Oct 28 09:48:14 <API> add a file to a <directory>
193 Oct 28 09:48:24 <API> so all the modules on this directory will be loaded
194 Oct 28 09:48:34 <API> and also adds a way to
195 Oct 28 09:48:36 <bnitz> good thanks.
196 Oct 28 09:48:38 <API> made this
197 Oct 28 09:48:42 <API> configurable
198 Oct 28 09:48:49 <API> (ie accesibility on/off)
199 Oct 28 09:49:06 <API> and I said at-spi as they made the change there
200 Oct 28 09:49:17 <API> probably because it install the bridge
201 Oct 28 09:49:31 <API> but the desktop file
202 Oct 28 09:49:33 <API> afaik
203 Oct 28 09:49:41 <API> could be installed by other app
204 Oct 28 09:49:43 <API> anyway
205 Oct 28 09:49:45 <API> lets move on
206 Oct 28 09:49:49 <API> 10 minutes
207 Oct 28 09:49:52 <aleiva> yeah
208 Oct 28 09:50:14 <aleiva> gnome 3?
209 Oct 28 09:50:34 <aleiva> we basically talked about with the wiki page move, isnt it?
210 Oct 28 09:50:42 <API> yep
211 Oct 28 09:50:55 <aleiva> roadmap?
212 Oct 28 09:51:21 <API> well, yes, in theory the idea
213 Oct 28 09:51:23 <aleiva> whats the definitive plan?
214 Oct 28 09:51:33 <API> would be that joanie API and you
215 Oct 28 09:51:49 <API> would start it in the background and when we have something
216 Oct 28 09:51:52 <API> similar to a draft
217 Oct 28 09:52:00 <API> uploaded it to any wiki page
218 Oct 28 09:52:06 <API> in order to get more feedback
219 Oct 28 09:52:14 <aleiva> nice
220 Oct 28 09:52:20 <joanie> Guess we need to get on that. :-)
221 Oct 28 09:52:47 <API> yes I know
222 Oct 28 09:53:18 <joanie> (It's not a complaint. I don't have time to sleep atm. But soon I will have time. Let's work on this earlyish next week)
223 Oct 28 09:53:42 <aleiva> I think tat after Boston Summit we'll have more ideas to address
224 Oct 28 09:53:44 <aleiva> btw
225 Oct 28 09:53:54 <aleiva> I want to add boston summit to the next meeting
226 Oct 28 09:53:55 <joanie> aleiva: I'd bet that
227 Oct 28 09:54:06 <joanie> aleiva: Most a11y folks are not coming
228 Oct 28 09:54:11 <aleiva> exactly
229 Oct 28 09:54:16 <joanie> BUT, you are welcome to edit the agenda
230 Oct 28 09:54:18 <aleiva> we can bring ideas from the froup
231 Oct 28 09:54:21 <joanie> all team members are
232 Oct 28 09:54:24 <joanie> ah, gotcha
233 Oct 28 09:54:28 <API> aleiva, that well be awesome, a new contributor to the agenda :P
234 Oct 28 09:54:28 <aleiva> joanie: yeah, I'm only informing
235 Oct 28 09:54:38 * joanie grins at API
236 Oct 28 09:55:21 <API> could you refresh my mind with Boston Summit dates?
237 Oct 28 09:55:51 <joanie> 6-8 Nov
238 Oct 28 09:56:00 <aleiva> 6,7,8 nov
239 Oct 28 09:56:17 <API> ok, thanks
240 Oct 28 09:56:21 <aleiva> next meeting is day 4th
241 Oct 28 09:56:27 <aleiva> then is a perfect date
242 Oct 28 09:56:39 <aleiva> to talk about our presence in boston summit
243 Oct 28 09:57:03 <aleiva> ok, guys, any item left?
244 Oct 28 09:57:39 <API> well, not time to review any item
245 Oct 28 09:57:39 <API> so
246 Oct 28 09:57:42 <API> lets start
247 Oct 28 09:57:47 <API> "miscellaneous time"
248 Oct 28 09:57:56 <API> anyone in the meeting
249 Oct 28 09:58:00 <API> the awake ones
250 Oct 28 09:58:10 <API> has suddenly realized anything to comment?
251 Oct 28 09:58:27 <API> bnitz, btw, on the previous meeting we talked about your feedback
252 Oct 28 09:58:35 <API> and was suggested a kind of wiki page
253 Oct 28 09:58:40 <API> similar to caribou one
254 Oct 28 09:58:45 <API> anything new about it?
255 Oct 28 09:59:25 * Bryen has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
256 Oct 28 09:59:59 <bnitz> API:Nothing new, sorry.
257 Oct 28 10:00:04 <API> ko
258 Oct 28 10:00:05 <API> ups
259 Oct 28 10:00:05 <API> ok
260 Oct 28 10:00:09 <bnitz> API:I've asked for a home on the gnome testing page.
261 Oct 28 10:00:21 <bnitz> Haven't heard back yet.
262 Oct 28 10:00:53 <API> ok
263 Oct 28 10:00:59 <API> people
264 Oct 28 10:01:07 <API> a last comment on this miscellaneous time?
265 Oct 28 10:02:08 <aleiva> not from my side, thanks guys for your time and effort ;-)
266 Oct 28 10:02:44 <joanie> Thanks for yours aleiva :-)
267 Oct 28 10:03:38 <API> ok, meeting finished
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