1 Sep 30 09:18:40 *	Now talking on #a11y
   2 Sep 30 09:18:52 <API>	hi, sorry the delay, traffic jam
   3 Sep 30 09:19:11 <API>	aleiva, has the meeting started?
   4 Sep 30 09:19:12 <mgorse>	Hi
   5 Sep 30 09:19:25 <API>	mgorse, hi
   6 Sep 30 09:19:33 <fer>	we were waiting for you api :)
   7 Sep 30 09:19:52 *	API fells guilty
   8 Sep 30 09:20:43 <API>	well, although AEGIS things are mostly finished, we can start with it
   9 Sep 30 09:20:49 <API>	bnitz, you here?
  10 Sep 30 09:21:20 *	slee (~chatzilla@stevelee.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #a11y
  11 Sep 30 09:23:39 <API>	well, it seems that no
  12 Sep 30 09:24:10 <API>	just to comment that we will probably rearrange the testing session 
  13 Sep 30 09:24:14 <API>	http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010
  14 Sep 30 09:24:27 <API>	to start later that day
  15 Sep 30 09:25:04 <API>	btw, aleiva you here?
  16 Sep 30 09:25:40 <API>	he already made the hotel book, probably it would be a good idea to upload that on the wiki, so people could know his 
  17 Sep 30 09:25:45 <API>	assigned mate
  18 Sep 30 09:26:11 <fer>	no aleiva either...
  19 Sep 30 09:26:12 <mgorse>	Are the rooms booked under our names, so we can just go to the desk at the hotel and give our name and we get the room?
  20 Sep 30 09:26:17 <API>	probably roommate is a better word
  21 Sep 30 09:26:35 <API>	mgorse, yes afaik
  22 Sep 30 09:26:53 <API>	ie, joanie is already flying to seville
  23 Sep 30 09:27:34 <mgorse>	Oh, yeah, right--that's why she's not here :)
  24 Sep 30 09:28:04 <API>	yeah, as Bryen, that he is already on Spain, although afaik te started with Barcelona
  25 Sep 30 09:28:36 <API>	well, lets move, ask about the hackfest if you have any question
  26 Sep 30 09:28:50 <API>	so, next in agenda would be GNOME 2.32 updates
  27 Sep 30 09:29:06 <API>	fer, recently I read a mail related to problems with gnome-mag
  28 Sep 30 09:29:12 <API>	did you read it?
  29 Sep 30 09:29:20 <fer>	yeah, I just got an anwer from Li
  30 Sep 30 09:29:26 <fer>	it's on the stable branch
  31 Sep 30 09:29:36 <fer>	so I should take a look at it for gnome 2.32
  32 Sep 30 09:29:52 <fer>	(which I totally ignored because I was not happy with such a release)
  33 Sep 30 09:30:17 <API>	fer, you mean gnome-mag 2.32 release or just gnome 2.32 release in general?
  34 Sep 30 09:30:36 <fer>	well, gnome-mag from stable branch is working fine over my stock gnome 2.30
  35 Sep 30 09:30:51 <fer>	(0.16.1)
  36 Sep 30 09:32:05 <fer>	although Li reported the bug to be present on gnome 2.30 branch
  37 Sep 30 09:32:14 <fer>	but I'll definitively take a look at it
  38 Sep 30 09:32:43 <API>	ok, 
  39 Sep 30 09:33:20 <API>	well, someone wants to comment something else about gnome 2.32 ?
  40 Sep 30 09:35:37 <API>	...
  41 Sep 30 09:35:55 <API>	so lets move to gnome 3.0, something forgotten the last weeks
  42 Sep 30 09:36:33 <API>	fer, afaik, there will be a lot of changes on gnome-mag on gnome 3.0 with respect to this gnome 2.32 release?
  43 Sep 30 09:36:44 <fer>	yup
  44 Sep 30 09:37:07 <fer>	dbus vs. bonobo and cairo drawing vs. old gtk2 gdk drawing
  45 Sep 30 09:38:04 <API>	gnome-mag used a lot of gtk2 gdk drawing?
  46 Sep 30 09:41:01 <fer>	yeah, and in a very bad way
  47 Sep 30 09:41:08 <API>	bad way?
  48 Sep 30 09:41:14 <fer>	very unoptimized
  49 Sep 30 09:41:35 <fer>	things like copy the cursor pixmap in every drawing instead of having it cached
  50 Sep 30 09:43:28 <API>	so you want to make the move to cairo and optimize the drawing in one shot?
  51 Sep 30 09:44:07 <fer>	not me, Benjamin Otte :)
  52 Sep 30 09:44:42 <fer>	who is the one screaming how bad the gdk drawing based code was :)
  53 Sep 30 09:45:40 <API>	fer, so Benjamin Otte will work on gnome-mag also?
  54 Sep 30 09:46:17 *	tomeu wants him to fix wnck first
  55 Sep 30 09:46:22 <fer>	He did a initial bunch of stuff, but I still need to poke him to get it finished 
  56 Sep 30 09:46:41 <fer>	haha, it looks like he is _the_ guy these days
  57 Sep 30 09:47:30 <tomeu>	he has stolen the spotlight from mezcalero :p
  58 Sep 30 09:48:09 <API>	ok, thanks fer
  59 Sep 30 09:48:21 <API>	I guess that this is enough gnome-mag for today ;)
  60 Sep 30 09:48:54 <API>	so the other star thinking on gnome3 is at-spi2
  61 Sep 30 09:49:02 <API>	mgorse, something to say about it?
  62 Sep 30 09:50:09 <mgorse>	Mostly there are performance issues to be worked out afaik
  63 Sep 30 09:50:46 <mgorse>	I've been working on trying to have it use dbus connections, which should help some. Made some progress on that yesterday (but need to figure out if dbus-glib is stil actually being maintained, since I fixed a bug in it)
  64 Sep 30 09:51:00 <mgorse>	s/dbus connections/direct dbus connections/
  65 Sep 30 09:51:26 <mgorse>	so I'll need to see how much of a difference that makes once it's al working
  66 Sep 30 09:52:12 <API>	just to add a anecdote, have you seen michael meeks post about dbus performance?
  67 Sep 30 09:52:28 <API>	this post was a reaction about someone adding kernel support
  68 Sep 30 09:52:37 <API>	in order to improve dbus performance
  69 Sep 30 09:53:04 <mgorse>	Not sure. Is that something that was written a few years ago when people were evaluating dbus?
  70 Sep 30 09:53:20 *	msanchez (~msanchez@44.24.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y
  71 Sep 30 09:53:22 <mgorse>	I'm also wondering how performant gdbus is compared to libdbus
  72 Sep 30 09:53:40 <tomeu>	hmm, gdbus is not using libdbus?
  73 Sep 30 09:53:49 <mgorse>	(and someone also filed  bug against at-spi2 since it is using dbus-glib)
  74 Sep 30 09:54:00 <tomeu>	that would mean the client side of the protocol was reimplemented in gdbus
  75 Sep 30 09:54:28 <mgorse>	tomeu: afaik it's a complete reimplementation
  76 Sep 30 09:55:11 <API>	mgorse, so gdbus and libdbus are two different implementations of dbus?
  77 Sep 30 09:55:25 <mgorse>	API: I believe so
  78 Sep 30 09:55:43 <API>	mgorse, there are any reason of this reimplementation?
  79 Sep 30 09:55:45 <tomeu>	looks like
  80 Sep 30 09:55:45 <API>	I mean
  81 Sep 30 09:55:49 <API>	something like
  82 Sep 30 09:55:54 <tomeu>	gvariant made easy reimplementing the marshalling
  83 Sep 30 09:55:56 <API>	different approachs
  84 Sep 30 09:56:05 <API>	or "old implementation is bad"
  85 Sep 30 09:56:09 <API>	or whatever
  86 Sep 30 09:56:27 <mgorse>	Apparently it was designed to be thread-safe
  87 Sep 30 09:56:30 <API>	tomeu, they made a dbus reimplementation just to use gvariant?
  88 Sep 30 09:56:36 <tomeu>	I guess desrt wanted to reuse gio and gvariant
  89 Sep 30 09:56:54 <tomeu>	API: well, there was consensus that dbus-glib wasn't the way forward
  90 Sep 30 09:57:03 <tomeu>	so they needed a new API in glib anyway
  91 Sep 30 09:57:20 <tomeu>	as they had already gio and gvariant, using libdbus would duplicate quite a bit of that
  92 Sep 30 09:57:23 <API>	yeah, but as you said before
  93 Sep 30 09:57:25 <API>	<tomeu> hmm, gdbus is not using libdbus?
  94 Sep 30 09:57:50 <tomeu>	yeah, just checked the source and it's not using it
  95 Sep 30 09:57:56 <tomeu>	only for the tests
  96 Sep 30 09:59:04 <tomeu>	sorry for the confusion
  97 Sep 30 09:59:08 <API>	mgorse, about michael meeks post, is not something written years ago
  98 Sep 30 09:59:10 <API>	http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2010-09-17.html
  99 Sep 30 09:59:21 <API>	it also includes a link to the other post
 100 Sep 30 09:59:23 <API>	tomeu, np
 101 Sep 30 09:59:24 <mgorse>	API: Okay; I'll look. Thanks
 102 Sep 30 09:59:36 <API>	well, we are almost out of time
 103 Sep 30 09:59:44 <API>	so lets move to "miscellaneous"
 104 Sep 30 09:59:58 <API>	anyone want to comment anything else?
 105 Sep 30 10:00:36 <fer>	ah
 106 Sep 30 10:00:43 <fer>	I have a question regarding aegis
 107 Sep 30 10:01:19 <fer>	I'm getting the GNOME braille embossed materials for AEGIS today or tomorrow
 108 Sep 30 10:01:32 <fer>	but I will not arrive to seville until Wed
 109 Sep 30 10:01:48 <fer>	so, should I bring them with myself or send them before to someone?
 110 Sep 30 10:02:28 <API>	fer, well Bryen made a strange question the other day, related to try to found out
 111 Sep 30 10:02:38 <API>	alternative braille printers
 112 Sep 30 10:02:59 <API>	but peter korn told him that it would be fine to add the material on usb sticks
 113 Sep 30 10:03:06 <API>	anyway, about your question
 114 Sep 30 10:03:17 <API>	I guess that you could send it to emergy facilities
 115 Sep 30 10:03:27 <fer>	well, that was because we were not sure if we could get ONCE printing the material at that time
 116 Sep 30 10:03:32 <API>	after all the event box will be sent there
 117 Sep 30 10:03:39 <API>	fer, ah ok, it was not related
 118 Sep 30 10:03:45 <fer>	ok, I'll coordinate with aleiva later
 119 Sep 30 10:03:56 <API>	btw, other good question would be ask aleiva if the event box is already on seville
 120 Sep 30 10:04:01 <fer>	yeah, I mailied both bryen and joanie, but got no answers
 121 Sep 30 10:04:13 <API>	i don't no the date
 122 Sep 30 10:04:21 <API>	fer, well, joanie is on flying
 123 Sep 30 10:04:35 <API>	and Bryen is hard to get in contact when he is in a foreign country
 124 Sep 30 10:04:48 <fer>	he he
 125 Sep 30 10:05:38 *	ruoso has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
 126 Sep 30 10:07:23 <API>	fer, ok thanks
 127 Sep 30 10:07:29 <API>	5 min over the time
 128 Sep 30 10:07:38 <API>	I think that we can conclude the meeting
 129 Sep 30 10:07:42 <API>	again, sorry for arrive late
 130 Sep 30 10:07:53 <fer>	thanks to you!
 131 Sep 30 10:07:59 <fer>	see you then in Seville next week!
 132 Sep 30 10:08:04 <API>	mgorse, tomeu fer thanks individually, as seems that you were the only guys here ;)
 133 Sep 30 10:08:41 *	tomeu was just the peanuts gallery
 134 Sep 30 10:12:02 *	slee has quit (ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.13/20100914130356])
 135 Sep 30 10:15:01 *	ruoso (~ruoso@201009122149.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #a11y
 136 Sep 30 10:16:20 *	andre (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net) has joined #a11y
 137 Sep 30 10:23:18 <aleiva>	uops
 138 Sep 30 10:23:20 <aleiva>	dorry
 139 Sep 30 10:23:24 <aleiva>	sorry*
 140 Sep 30 10:23:40 <aleiva>	I was travelling this week and I forget about the meeting
 141 Sep 30 10:27:06 <aleiva>	for the record, all the hotel stuff is done
 142 Sep 30 10:29:12 <fer>	am I the only "single"?
 143 Sep 30 10:31:06 <API>	aleiva, np
 144 Sep 30 10:36:02 <aleiva>	API: :-)