(11:01:59 AM) API: well, people meeting time
(11:02:06 AM) ***API sending virtual broadcast
(11:02:15 AM) Bryen: me are here.
(11:02:54 AM) API: well, lets starts, first with our current "main topic"
(11:02:56 AM) API: aegis thing
(11:03:12 AM) API: I sent (yesterday, sorry) the mail to german poo
(11:03:31 AM) API: from the travel committe in order to have a aprox number of people asking for that
(11:03:33 AM) API: no answer
(11:03:35 AM) API: my faul
(11:03:36 AM) API: t
(11:03:43 AM) API: I should have sent that the last week
(11:04:03 AM) API: other point
(11:04:09 AM) API: seeing gtk mailing lists
(11:04:21 AM) API: due gtk hackfest
(11:04:23 AM) API: http://live.gnome.org/Hackfests/GTK2010
(11:04:43 AM) API: they have already contacted the hotel, in order to prebook the rooms
(11:04:56 AM) API: and get a "group discount"
(11:05:05 AM) API: aleiva, and other local team
(11:05:08 AM) Bryen: where is A Coruña, Galicia?
(11:05:29 AM) API: Bryen, Spain, northwest, but it is a different hackfest ;)
(11:05:40 AM) API: aleiva, there is any possibility of any of you
(11:05:51 AM) API: to get in contact with any of the hotels and do something similar?
(11:05:57 AM) Bryen: yes I'm aware its a different hackfest, just wondering of the location
(11:06:08 AM) aleiva: API: umhh, I think Juanje did
(11:06:18 AM) aleiva: API: without success
(11:06:21 AM) joanie: aleiva: I think that was something different
(11:06:25 AM) aleiva: API: anyway I'll try again
(11:06:29 AM) API: Bryen, there are a google maps link with the exact direction
(11:06:31 AM) API: aleiva, ok
(11:06:41 AM) API: here
(11:06:43 AM) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010
(11:06:50 AM) API: there are a full lists of hotels
(11:06:55 AM) aleiva: joanie: I remember that he also ask about group discount.
(11:07:04 AM) aleiva: joanie: anyway, we'll check again
(11:07:04 AM) API: using CSUN as example,
(11:07:10 AM) joanie: aleiva: okay, my bad
(11:07:11 AM) API: most of the people were in the same hotel
(11:07:21 AM) API: ok, thanks
(11:07:28 AM) joanie: I think it would be good if we were mostly in the same hotel for this one
(11:07:39 AM) API: I think that it would be really messy if all people start to get their rooms indivually
(11:07:42 AM) API: from the foundation pov
(11:07:51 AM) API: anyway, I also asked that on the mail I sent to german
(11:07:56 AM) Bryen: yes, it would be helpful to get the discount thing out of the way so we can make our reservations early without soldout rooms
(11:08:19 AM) API: Bryen, yeah, but other advantage is being sure that we have the rooms
(11:08:32 AM) API: in the case of gtk people, they sent a mail asking for confirmation, in order to be sure
(11:08:41 AM) API: there are rooms available on that hotel
(11:09:12 AM) jpwhiting: Bryen: yes, you want to make sure you get the suite, eh?
(11:09:34 AM) Bryen: wouldn't have it any other way, jpwhiting
(11:09:40 AM) joanie: API, so the Gtk hackfest page says "Hotel: Will be booked and paid by the GNOME Foundation (quick check shows €409 for the week per twin room, including breakfast) "
(11:09:41 AM) API: ;)
(11:09:53 AM) joanie: It would be super if we could get that to occur here
(11:09:54 AM) ***API reading
(11:10:05 AM) joanie: *booked* and paid for
(11:10:10 AM) API: well, it also says
(11:10:12 AM) API: "Travel costs: Covered by individual participants (Travel committee will help if there is a genuine need) "
(11:10:26 AM) joanie: yeah, that's not what I'm getting at though....
(11:10:33 AM) API: joanie, yes, but that hotel is really near Igalia offices
(11:10:42 AM) joanie: :-)
(11:10:43 AM) API: and we already used that on the WebkitGTK hackfest
(11:10:48 AM) joanie: My point is this:
(11:11:03 AM) joanie: Juanje inquired about government discounts, etc.
(11:11:09 AM) API: I mean, that Igalia point that hotel, and foundation knows were to go
(11:11:23 AM) API: in that case we still need to know "the ideal hotel"
(11:11:24 AM) joanie: If GNOME could book the rooms (not pay for them) that would ease things quite a bit I would think
(11:11:29 AM) joanie: exactly API
(11:11:31 AM) API: joanie, I agree
(11:11:38 AM) aleiva: API: about ideal hotel
(11:11:40 AM) joanie: which is something I hope that Juanje and aleiva can determine (soon)
(11:11:47 AM) aleiva: API: I need some answers
(11:11:50 AM) API: but foundation book the rooms in a known hotel
(11:12:01 AM) API: what Im saying is that we need to inquire that list of hotels
(11:12:11 AM) API: aleiva, what answers?
(11:12:52 AM) aleiva: what you guys prefer, to stay near of the conference or a bit far (10 minutes by bus) but in the city?
(11:13:05 AM) joanie: aleiva: in the city
(11:13:13 AM) aleiva: that's the main problem with the aegis place
(11:13:15 AM) joanie: I think we determined that a few meetings ago
(11:13:23 AM) aleiva: joanie: ok
(11:13:36 AM) Bryen: I think the recommendation was to be in the city, but even then... which hotel provides the best convenience via bus? That's what I couldn't figure out just by looking at the proposed list
(11:14:03 AM) aleiva: Bryen: I can choose one, I know how to go
(11:14:24 AM) joanie: yay! Thanks aleiva.
(11:14:29 AM) Bryen: perfect
(11:14:41 AM) API: ok, now trying to summarize, and clean the mess I create
(11:14:48 AM) ***joanie chuckles
(11:15:08 AM) API: a) I agree that ideally foundation should book the rooms
(11:15:24 AM) API: b) but in order to do that, we should point the foundation which hotel choose
(11:15:34 AM) API: anyway, b) would be confirmed in the mail I sent to german
(11:16:01 AM) API: well, this is all what I have in my head related to aegis
(11:16:12 AM) API: somebody else wants to say anything?
(11:16:20 AM) joanie: c) aleiva will pick out a hotel by next meeting??
(11:17:26 AM) aleiva: joanie: ASAP
(11:17:34 AM) joanie: tyvm!
(11:19:13 AM) joanie: Bryen: any updates on the alternative funding sources?
(11:19:25 AM) joanie: last week you had indicated you were writing letters. how is that progressing?
(11:19:45 AM) Bryen: one source is on track and circulating within that organization. The others I haven't heard back yet
(11:20:04 AM) joanie: any ideas when we might know something?
(11:20:14 AM) Bryen: Of the four, I think one is a definite no-go because I know they're at their end of budget cycle, but I remain somewhat hopeful of the others
(11:20:34 AM) joanie: cool
(11:20:45 AM) Bryen: I really wouldn't be able to give a date, but i would assume we'll know for sure by say end of month.
(11:21:11 AM) Bryen: If the one that's seeming to take steam does come thru, that would be $5K
(11:21:28 AM) joanie: that would certainly help the cause :-)
(11:22:05 AM) Bryen: well if you're religious, start praying for it. :-)
(11:22:10 AM) API: ok, thanks Bryen
(11:22:28 AM) ***API reading other aegis things on the minutes
(11:22:31 AM) API: ah yeah
(11:22:32 AM) API: posters
(11:22:42 AM) korn1: Sorry I'm late gang...
(11:22:45 AM) Bryen: on the subject of posters, I'm still working on mine.
(11:22:50 AM) API: when I sent my paper, with the corrections they told me
(11:22:52 AM) ***joanie nods to korn1
(11:22:53 AM) API: about write a poster
(11:23:02 AM) API: Bryen, your poster is about ...
(11:23:18 AM) ***API I don't want to tell the same things on mine
(11:23:18 AM) Bryen: gnome-a11y
(11:23:38 AM) API: hmm, so I guess it overlaps in some places
(11:23:44 AM) API: could you sent me your paper?
(11:23:51 AM) API: or you are still writing it?
(11:23:53 AM) Bryen: well you told me you wanted me to do gnome-a11y
(11:23:58 AM) joanie: API did they send you specific instructions on posters
(11:24:11 AM) API: joanie, yeah
(11:24:19 AM) API: but basically is made a summary of my paper on the poster
(11:24:26 AM) joanie: Bryen: (to which you responded that you were going to bed. so it wasn't really clear what the plan was)
(11:24:36 AM) API: in order to people understand all the gnome-shell thing
(11:24:45 AM) API: I added a thick introduction to gnome a11y
(11:24:49 AM) joanie: API mind sending me what you have from them?
(11:24:57 AM) API: ko
(11:24:59 AM) API: ups
(11:25:00 AM) API: ok
(11:25:01 AM) joanie: I'll be cranking this out last minute for Orca
(11:25:07 AM) API: ok
(11:25:14 AM) joanie: but I can write academic crap if I know what's expected
(11:25:16 AM) Bryen: is there a deadline for the poster?
(11:25:21 AM) joanie: 31st August
(11:25:39 AM) API: ok, the other thing is this one:
(11:25:41 AM) API: Topic areas which need to be finalized/filled out:
(11:25:41 AM) API: * Testing
(11:25:41 AM) API: * Outreach
(11:25:56 AM) API: korn1, any new from the testing team?
(11:26:00 AM) korn1: API - I just spoke with Brian Nitz.
(11:26:10 AM) korn1: He *will* be attending, and presenting on testing.
(11:26:25 AM) korn1: I'm still not 100% sure how much time to allocate for it. I'd say at least 2 hours and not more than 4 hours.
(11:26:37 AM) korn1: I hope to refine that in the next day or three.
(11:26:44 AM) API: korn1, ok, so this line on the schedule
(11:26:46 AM) API: Morning
(11:26:46 AM) API:
(11:26:46 AM) API: Testing
(11:26:47 AM) API:
(11:26:47 AM) API: "Open Area Left," Escuela de Ingenieros
(11:26:47 AM) API:
(11:26:49 AM) API: Brian Nitz (pending confirmation)
(11:26:57 AM) API: can be rewritten to just "Brian Nitz"
(11:27:32 AM) API: once we new how much time is required, we can put a real schedule on that page
(11:27:59 AM) ***joanie just removed the 'pending confirmation' bit
(11:28:53 AM) API: ok, Bryen how about the outreach?
(11:29:03 AM) API: or this is a slee stuff?
(11:29:30 AM) Bryen: what do you mean?
(11:30:02 AM) Bryen: oh topics for the hackfest... ok
(11:30:27 AM) Bryen: well I just need to confab with slee and see how we both want to proceed. But at this point, I'm guessing he and I will be the primary participants of that portion of the hackfest
(11:30:53 AM) Bryen: as there aren't others who like doing marketing stuff, although I'd hope they'd stop by just to observe at least :-)
(11:31:06 AM) API: Bryen, yeah, but at this point
(11:31:07 AM) API: on
(11:31:08 AM) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010
(11:31:19 AM) API: there are a TBD (To Be Done) hole in the schedule
(11:31:29 AM) Bryen: and I'll take care of it
(11:31:39 AM) API: ok, thanks Bryen
brad Bryen
(11:31:59 AM) joanie: Bryen: likewise booth duty scheduling
(11:32:38 AM) Bryen: yes
(11:32:52 AM) Bryen: but I think scheduling is a bit premature at this stage
(11:33:11 AM) Bryen: I'll be there the entire time, as in my priority is to be there when no one else can be there.
(11:33:38 AM) API: Bryen, although main actors about this topic are you and slee, probably other people wants to attend
(11:33:41 AM) Bryen: but for others to commit to actually being there depends a bit on whether they have reviewed the conference sked and decided there was some specific session they wanted to go to.
(11:33:45 AM) API: at least to know "what its happening"
(11:33:50 AM) korn1: Booth duty scheduling should be pretty easy, as it won't be full day staffing.
(11:33:59 AM) Bryen: korn1, right
(11:34:03 AM) API: so if it is scheduled, people can make their plans
(11:34:29 AM) joanie: also, it would be a shame if we all thought someone else was dealing with booth duty
(11:34:35 AM) Bryen: i'm just saying I'm not expecting anyone to volunteer their time until we get closer to the date. But regardless, it will be staffed no matter what, by at least me. :-)
(11:35:17 AM) joanie: awesomesauce
(11:36:15 AM) API: ok,
(11:36:27 AM) Bryen: I'm also going to be working on a brochure of GNOME-A11y that will be handed out at Ohio Linux Fest and consequently at AEGIS booth
(11:36:46 AM) API: Bryen, thanks
(11:36:47 AM) Bryen: But I don't want to schlep the brochures across the ocean. If someone has access to a decent printer, that'd be great
(11:37:05 AM) API: Bryen, normal or braille brochures?
(11:37:11 AM) joanie: Bryen: fer is also handling accessible documentation, so please coordinate with him
(11:37:12 AM) API: remember that some people are already working on that
(11:37:22 AM) ***API overlap!
(11:37:27 AM) ***joanie shuts up
(11:37:29 AM) joanie: :-)
(11:37:31 AM) fer: hehe
(11:37:33 AM) Bryen: someone's already making a brochure?
(11:37:53 AM) joanie: Bryen: no. But fer will need an electronic copy of your document in time to get it produced
(11:37:57 AM) korn1: Should y'all have a list of tasks up on the wiki, with names associated with who is doing them?
(11:38:07 AM) API: Bryen, you know, it would be a good idea reading previous minutes ;)
(11:38:14 AM) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Minutes
(11:38:39 AM) Bryen: there would be some other good ideas too, but I'll refrain now.
(11:40:45 AM) API: ok, something else about aegis
(11:40:46 AM) API: korn1, ?
(11:41:17 AM) korn1: Ummm.... Nothing from me to add. Any questions for me?
(11:41:44 AM) API: not from my side
(11:42:23 AM) API: ok, lets try to use the rest of the time for other things
(11:42:30 AM) API: if nobody has other proposal
(11:42:49 AM) API: Im thinking about the current gtk/pygtk/python mess
(11:43:03 AM) API: after read some mails it seems that all this situation is messy
(11:43:18 AM) API: and although there are 3x3 combinations
(11:43:24 AM) API: right now the plan is :
(11:43:33 AM) API: python 2.0 + gtk 2 + pygtk
(11:43:41 AM) API: python 3.0 + gtk 3.0 + pyobject
(11:43:54 AM) API: some of the python accessibility module maintainers
(11:44:06 AM) API: joanie, mgorse, danigm_out etc
(11:44:15 AM) API: any plan?
(11:44:24 AM) API: or your plan is wait until all gets defined?
(11:44:27 AM) ***joanie pokes aleiva as a co-maintainer
(11:44:49 AM) aleiva: in orca said we're waiting until all gets defined
(11:44:59 AM) aleiva: s/said/side :)
(11:44:59 AM) fer: API: does option #2 involces using pygi ?
(11:45:08 AM) fer: involves*
(11:45:14 AM) aleiva: fer: pygi dont exists anymore
(11:45:28 AM) aleiva: fer: is into pygobject
(11:45:31 AM) fer: has it been renamed or integrated into pyobject?
(11:45:34 AM) fer: nice
(11:45:40 AM) API: fer, yes, AFAIK
(11:46:00 AM) API: after this gnome 3.0 release new date
(11:46:15 AM) API: the situation is somewhat messy about what make to 2.32 and to 3.0
(11:46:23 AM) mgorse: Has Python 3 been released yet?
(11:46:55 AM) API: mgorse, well I can install it, in my ubuntu, as far as I see
(11:46:56 AM) aleiva: mgorse: 3.1 is stable
(11:47:06 AM) API: although the default is 2.0
(11:47:08 AM) ***fer votes for releasing 2.32 from 2.30 branch, sticking to old bonobo and friends and concentrating our efforts working for 3.0 only
(11:47:32 AM) API: fer, yes, it seems the policy for most of the people
(11:47:34 AM) joanie: +1
(11:47:45 AM) API: the mess started because some people already made the 3.0 changes
(11:47:51 AM) API: although I guess that this is not the case here
(11:48:05 AM) joanie: for bonobo related stuff, we made it optional in ORca
(11:48:12 AM) joanie: use it if we find it
(11:48:31 AM) joanie: so we'll release 2.32 from master
(11:48:41 AM) joanie: but we've not tackled the pygtk stuff
(11:50:13 AM) API: joanie, well people said that it should be a easy task to do the migration
(11:50:21 AM) API: but I really doubt that
(11:50:51 AM) API: anyway, we can fight this issue later
(11:51:07 AM) API: but we should have this in mind
(11:51:12 AM) joanie: agreed
(11:51:17 AM) ***API reading agenda
(11:51:35 AM) API: clown is not here, so I guess that there isn't anything to talk about magnification
(11:51:44 AM) API: mgorse, any at-spi2 update
(11:51:44 AM) API: ?
(11:52:05 AM) joanie: poor fer
(11:52:08 AM) joanie: :-)
(11:52:10 AM) mgorse: I need to ask Lee if he is planning on makin ga new at-spi-corba release
(11:52:25 AM) fer: hehe, don't worry, I already have evil plans to make some more changes to the magnification API :)
(11:52:30 AM) mgorse: since it currently efaults to being relocated in git, but I don't think we want that for 2.32
(11:52:35 AM) fer: (like delegating cursor tacking from orca to magnifiers)
(11:52:50 AM) joanie: (fer: sweet!)
(11:53:37 AM) mgorse: don't think so other than that. Need to leave for a bit.
(11:53:54 AM) fer: joanie: I was thinking on performance, as a dbus call for setROI per mouse event may be too much
(11:53:55 AM) API: mgorse, Lee?
(11:54:04 AM) joanie: Li
(11:54:21 AM) API: ah ok, I was thinking on Steve Lee, sorry :P
(11:54:35 AM) aleiva: fer: dbus for capturing input events is crazy IMHO
(11:55:05 AM) API: fer, there was a setROI per mouse event on CORBA?
(11:55:13 AM) fer: yeah
(11:55:33 AM) joanie: API, fer my recollection is that Carlos Diogenes wouldn't move it to gnome-mag
(11:55:35 AM) API: API, well, again the CORBAvsDBUS performance issues
(11:55:39 AM) joanie: so we didn't have a choice
(11:55:46 AM) joanie: sounds like fer is giving us one. (yay!)
(11:56:09 AM) API: fer, so you are thinking in a kind of filtering or something?
(11:56:30 AM) fer: API: no, just adding some API functions to magnifiers to tell them how we want cursor tracking
(11:56:52 AM) fer: current code for gnome-mag knows how to do mouse tracking in his own (using -m command line)
(11:56:56 AM) fer: but it is not exposed
(11:57:05 AM) API: fer, so if a user wants a setROI per event, they can configure it?
(11:58:13 AM) fer: currently orca does this on mouse event:
(11:58:15 AM) fer: if _mouseTracking == settings.MAG_TRACKING_MODE_PUSH:
(11:58:16 AM) fer: __setROIPush(x, y)
(11:58:16 AM) fer: elif _mouseTracking == settings.MAG_TRACKING_MODE_PROPORTIONAL:
(11:58:16 AM) fer: __setROIProportional(x, y)
(11:58:16 AM) fer: elif _mouseTracking == settings.MAG_TRACKING_MODE_CENTERED:
(11:58:17 AM) fer: __setROICenter(x, y)
(11:58:41 AM) fer: so the idea is to do a global magnifier.SetMouseTracking(MAG_TRACKING_MODE_PROPORTIONAL)
(11:58:48 AM) fer: and let the magnifier follow the cursor
(11:59:03 AM) fer: and not to do a setROI in orca at all
(11:59:10 AM) joanie: which would so rock
(11:59:16 AM) fer: just a tough, I have to talk with clown about that
(12:00:07 PM) fer: though*
(12:00:16 PM) joanie: thought?
(12:00:18 PM) joanie: :-)
(12:00:28 PM) fer: (gsmag does it own cursor tracking and ignores current orca setting IIRC)
(12:00:59 PM) fer: anyway, enhancements for the future :)
(12:01:09 PM) API: fer, thanks for the update
(12:01:10 PM) joanie: 'tis good news though. Thanks feer!
(12:01:16 PM) joanie: fer even
(12:01:17 PM) API: meeting over time!
(12:01:27 PM) heidi: One quick question?
(12:01:31 PM) API: somebody wants a last hour shot?
(12:01:32 PM) API: heidi, sure
(12:01:48 PM) fer: btw joanie, mgorse fixes the mouse event thing! and now we are actually tracking the mouse! yiiippa!
(12:01:51 PM) heidi: Could someone direct me to the proper venue for asking questions about which keyboards would be most needed for Caribou?
(12:01:54 PM) fer: fixed*
(12:02:01 PM) joanie: way to go mgorse!
(12:02:21 PM) heidi: My impression is that the developer list is for developers and I'd like some input from users.
(12:02:50 PM) API: heidi, hmm, some time ago current caribou developer made a similar question on the list
(12:03:08 PM) joanie: heidi: To be honest we have a cart-horse situation here
(12:03:14 PM) joanie: not a lot of users
(12:03:25 PM) heidi: gnome-accessibility-list?
(12:03:30 PM) ***API searching
(12:03:31 PM) heidi: Ah, got it.
(12:03:35 PM) joanie: To me, this would be an interesting area in which to commission a study
(12:03:45 PM) joanie: perhaps involve Centers for Independent Living, etc
(12:03:55 PM) API: heidi
(12:03:59 PM) joanie: current gnome community of users is not going to get you the answers you presumably want
(12:04:03 PM) API: you are asking for something like that:
(12:04:06 PM) API: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2010-June/msg00087.html
(12:04:07 PM) API: ?
(12:04:16 PM) API: s/you are/are you
(12:04:22 PM) heidi: Yes. Any ideas on best way to reach potential users? People who might want to use caribou but don't because of keyboard?
(12:04:57 PM) korn1: There are also folks outside of the U.S. to engage (e.g. on Caribou)
(12:05:06 PM) API: heidi, take into account that there are two gnome accessibility lists
(12:05:08 PM) korn1: ACE Center in the UK. And of course the folks in spain who are funding it.
(12:05:12 PM) API: gnome-accessibility-list
(12:05:14 PM) heidi: API: This message appears to be related to switch device. I was talking about having students develop new keyboards during fall semester.
(12:05:28 PM) dexem: heidi, I thought you asked for concrete keyboard layouts :P
(12:05:28 PM) korn1: For reasons I don't fully understand, few folks with physical disabilities are engaged in our mailing lists.
(12:05:34 PM) heidi: kornl: thanks
(12:05:54 PM) heidi: dexem: Umm, yes, am I not asking the question in the right way?
(12:06:18 PM) Bryen: korn1 is right. Its kind of hard to quantify atm who is using our works and what their experiences are. We're kind of in a case-by-case situation atm.
(12:06:19 PM) heidi: dexem: Please jump in as I think you know that I'm asking.
(12:06:22 PM) dexem: well, :-) the mail API refers to is about a way of using the keyboard
(12:06:23 PM) API: and gnome-accessibility-develgnome-accessibility-devel
(12:06:31 PM) API: ups
(12:06:33 PM) API: gnome-accessibility-devel
(12:06:46 PM) heidi: API: Ah, thanks!
(12:06:52 PM) ***API although is true that people usually mixed both
(12:06:59 PM) dexem: anyway, it seems that the problem is similar... we need feedback from the users or the researchers
(12:07:07 PM) dexem: to know what's really needed
(12:07:27 PM) API: dexem, you have any user feedback in your project?
(12:07:30 PM) heidi: Yes. If anyone has ideas on how to go about doing this, I'd be happy to have students investigate when classes start.
(12:07:40 PM) API: I mean, as it was created by the local government...
(12:07:56 PM) Bryen: I wonder if its particularly because some people don't like mailing lists and prefer some sort of forum interface
(12:08:17 PM) dexem: API, I think it's not "deployed" anywhere yet
(12:09:25 PM) API: dexem, ok, thanks
(12:09:51 PM) API: Bryen, probably, but it is hard to generalize
(12:09:51 PM) Bryen: well I need to get going, it's past the hour now. Catch you all later
(12:09:57 PM) API: I dont like forum interfaces, for example
(12:10:05 PM) heidi: Thank you all for the input. I need to go as well.
(12:10:27 PM) Bryen: API, I agree, I dislike forums too, but as I have seen in other communities there are people who will adamantly refuse to use one medium over another
(12:10:44 PM) API: heidi thanks to attend the meeting
(12:10:52 PM) Bryen: And I'm all for implementing multiple communication venues, but not unless we know everything can be properly staffed, and atm I don't think it can be.
(12:10:53 PM) heidi: Ah, thank you! I'm learning a lot. bye
(12:11:05 PM) heidi left the room (quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]).
(12:11:09 PM) Pendulum: the Ubuntu Accessibility project just did a huge survey of users (both Linux and other OS) to see what software people are using and like (we're creating accessibility personas to give to Ubuntu design/developers), I can see if any of our responses would be useful
(12:11:09 PM) API: well, I think that we can official call this meeting off
(12:11:31 PM) Bryen: ok see you all next week. Different bat-time, same bat-channel!