1 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul  8 08:03:57 2010
   2 
   3 Jul 08 08:03:57 *	Now talking on #a11y
   4 Jul 08 08:05:05 <API>	sorry, I'm late
   5 Jul 08 08:05:25 <API>	joanie, has the meeting started already?
   6 Jul 08 08:05:30 <joanie>	no sir
   7 Jul 08 08:05:41 *	TheMuso waves.
   8 Jul 08 08:05:43 <joanie>	It's not a meeting without you
   9 Jul 08 08:07:46 <API>	well, I think that its time to start it
  10 Jul 08 08:08:07 <joanie>	:-)
  11 Jul 08 08:08:28 *	msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y
  12 Jul 08 08:08:52 <API>	well, first item AEGIS hackfest
  13 Jul 08 08:09:36 <API>	agenda is here
  14 Jul 08 08:09:41 <API>	and nobody complain about it
  15 Jul 08 08:09:52 <joanie>	heh
  16 Jul 08 08:09:56 <API>	so we can suppose that all people agrees ;)
  17 Jul 08 08:10:14 <joanie>	(you get my email regarding Peter's proposed possible topic?)
  18 Jul 08 08:10:58 <API>	joanie, hmmm
  19 Jul 08 08:11:02 *	API reading now
  20 Jul 08 08:12:54 <API>	ok, so korn proposed a item about Qt and Meego
  21 Jul 08 08:13:16 <API>	jpwhiting is not  here to ask him ;)
  22 Jul 08 08:14:09 <API>	joanie, I'm not against it, although not sure which people could talk about it from the current list of attendees 
  23 Jul 08 08:14:18 <joanie>	Right
  24 Jul 08 08:14:33 <API>	my experience with Meego is with Maemo
  25 Jul 08 08:14:36 <joanie>	But peter said 'if the Qt/TollTech/Nokia guys were to appear'
  26 Jul 08 08:14:38 <API>	and related with Hildon
  27 Jul 08 08:14:53 <joanie>	I figured that they would be the ones to talk about it??
  28 Jul 08 08:15:12 <joanie>	My question is more around which of the attendees would be interested in that?
  29 Jul 08 08:15:24 <joanie>	Perhaps we should talk more about this later(??)
  30 Jul 08 08:15:42 <API>	well, I have been working on a11y at maemo, hildon-gtk => hail-gail
  31 Jul 08 08:15:58 <API>	so I would be interested in hear them 
  32 Jul 08 08:16:05 <API>	about plans in Meego
  33 Jul 08 08:16:31 <API>	hmmm, and after all, I have just remember that clutter is also a meego technology :P
  34 Jul 08 08:16:50 <joanie>	Ok.... Then I guess we should figure out where to put it on the schedule.
  35 Jul 08 08:17:49 <API>	joanie, although as you have already said, 'if the Qt/TollTech/Nokia guys were to appear'
  36 Jul 08 08:18:03 <API>	we need these people to appear
  37 Jul 08 08:18:06 <joanie>	Well, it's the same thing as with Shaun
  38 Jul 08 08:18:15 <API>	we could ask jpwhiting 
  39 Jul 08 08:18:24 <API>	joanie, the same thing as with Shaun?
  40 Jul 08 08:18:42 <joanie>	If Shaun doesn't come, documentation day is kinda shot.
  41 Jul 08 08:18:59 <joanie>	And Shaun needs funding, etc. He's not yet committed to coming.
  42 Jul 08 08:19:27 <API>	joanie, ah ok
  43 Jul 08 08:19:40 <joanie>	Let's talk more about this later. (Full agenda, etc.)
  44 Jul 08 08:20:13 <API>	ok, funding
  45 Jul 08 08:20:24 <API>	fer didn't say nothing
  46 Jul 08 08:20:40 <API>	so I suppose that CENATIC help is still "work in progress"
  47 Jul 08 08:20:46 *	raywang has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
  48 Jul 08 08:20:48 <API>	anyway as peter korn said last week
  49 Jul 08 08:21:03 <API>	we need to get in contact with foundation soon
  50 Jul 08 08:21:13 <joanie>	Indeed
  51 Jul 08 08:21:26 <API>	Bryen, if you are here, have you tried another funding options?
  52 Jul 08 08:23:14 *	dani (~dexem@167.108.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #a11y
  53 Jul 08 08:25:56 <API>	well it seems that Bryen is not here ;)
  54 Jul 08 08:26:01 <API>	BTW: people
  55 Jul 08 08:26:24 *	API wonders if there are a broadcast warning
  56 Jul 08 08:26:44 <API>	remember that Bryen sent a mail about the quarter report
  57 Jul 08 08:27:02 <API>	write down what you have done about a11y the last three months
  58 Jul 08 08:27:14 <API>	I suppose apr-may-jun
  59 Jul 08 08:27:17 <API>	and send him
  60 Jul 08 08:28:03 *	raywang (~raywang@emperor.canonical.com) has joined #a11y
  61 Jul 08 08:28:50 <API>	well, going again with the funding thing
  62 Jul 08 08:29:10 <API>	we are approaching a limit
  63 Jul 08 08:29:22 <API>	were we need to get in contact with foundation
  64 Jul 08 08:29:37 <API>	and then we could search for alternative funding sources
  65 Jul 08 08:29:43 <joanie>	+1
  66 Jul 08 08:29:55 <API>	so..., I think that we would need to get in contact with foundation soon
  67 Jul 08 08:30:14 <API>	using attendees and 'hope to attend'
  68 Jul 08 08:30:23 <API>	tables on http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010
  69 Jul 08 08:31:27 <API>	and going on with AEGIS
  70 Jul 08 08:31:29 <API>	next item is
  71 Jul 08 08:31:35 <API>	"Other updates "
  72 Jul 08 08:31:50 <API>	;)
  73 Jul 08 08:31:51 <joanie>	(Don't think there are any)
  74 Jul 08 08:32:09 <API>	ok, lets move to next poing
  75 Jul 08 08:32:15 <API>	s/poing/point
  76 Jul 08 08:32:25 <API>	HFOSS/OUTREACH
  77 Jul 08 08:32:54 <API>	well, joanie included here news about CSUN
  78 Jul 08 08:33:14 <API>	foundation has confirmed that will pay the booth
  79 Jul 08 08:33:41 <API>	eeejay, did anyone from foundation put in contact with you?
  80 Jul 08 08:35:28 *	joanie wonders if API, TheMuso, and she are the only three actually here
  81 Jul 08 08:35:38 <dani>	I'm also here
  82 Jul 08 08:35:42 <API>	msanchez, is also here
  83 Jul 08 08:35:43 *	dani is now known as dexem
  84 Jul 08 08:35:56 <mgorse>	I'm here
  85 Jul 08 08:36:05 <API>	in fact, I can hit him with a stick, is just two meters away
  86 Jul 08 08:36:29 <joanie>	API please don't beat msanchez (until all the WebKitGtk bugs are fixed)
  87 Jul 08 08:36:52 <dexem>	about eeejay he seems a little bit away... even by mail (I sent him a ping a couple of days ago :P)
  88 Jul 08 08:37:18 *	sshaw has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
  89 Jul 08 08:37:31 <API>	well, we can conclude that point as
  90 Jul 08 08:37:43 <API>	foundation will pay CSUN 2011 booth
  91 Jul 08 08:37:56 <API>	foundation people will try to get in contact with eeejay 
  92 Jul 08 08:38:16 <API>	I hope they would have more lucky than you, dexem 
  93 Jul 08 08:38:31 <dexem>	:)
  94 Jul 08 08:38:54 <API>	next point
  95 Jul 08 08:38:57 <API>	gnome 3.0 status
  96 Jul 08 08:39:44 <API>	remember people 
  97 Jul 08 08:39:46 <API>	update 
  98 Jul 08 08:39:51 <API>	http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3
  99 Jul 08 08:40:09 <API>	joanie, added a mini-item about evince status
 100 Jul 08 08:40:34 <joanie>	Yeah, who exactly is doing that work?
 101 Jul 08 08:40:50 *	API opening evince bug
 102 Jul 08 08:41:16 <API>	danigm, are you here?
 103 Jul 08 08:42:19 <danigm>	API: yep
 104 Jul 08 08:42:59 <API>	danigm, you are working on evince a11y right now, afaik
 105 Jul 08 08:43:10 <danigm>	yes
 106 Jul 08 08:43:13 *	dpellicer (~dpellicer@14.Red-88-26-177.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #a11y
 107 Jul 08 08:43:37 <API>	ok, there are a item about evince
 108 Jul 08 08:43:41 <danigm>	in fact, a11y is "working" in evince master
 109 Jul 08 08:43:53 <API>	http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3#Evince
 110 Jul 08 08:43:57 <danigm>	AtkText is implemented
 111 Jul 08 08:44:05 <API>	it would be awesome if you update that item
 112 Jul 08 08:44:17 <API>	something like "current status" and "remaining work"
 113 Jul 08 08:44:20 <API>	just a summary ;)
 114 Jul 08 08:44:25 <joanie>	danigm: That's awesome! (You should announce that on the Orca list)
 115 Jul 08 08:44:37 <joanie>	Get users testing, etc.
 116 Jul 08 08:45:18 <API>	danigm, for example, it could be good to change "NO RESOURCES" for something more real
 117 Jul 08 08:45:30 *	jpwhiting (~jeremy@193.185.223.3) has joined #a11y
 118 Jul 08 08:45:30 *	joanie chuckles
 119 Jul 08 08:46:35 *	API have just started a storm, with several thunders
 120 Jul 08 08:46:47 <API>	ok, lets move to other gnome 3.0 items
 121 Jul 08 08:47:04 <API>	yesterday I added a point about gsettings
 122 Jul 08 08:47:39 <API>	right now several apps like orca
 123 Jul 08 08:47:47 <API>	has started the gsettings migration
 124 Jul 08 08:48:13 <API>	and probably this will affect the universal access preferences
 125 Jul 08 08:49:00 <API>	I fear that probably this UI will found a mixed environment
 126 Jul 08 08:49:13 <API>	and will require to use gconf and gsettings
 127 Jul 08 08:49:28 <joanie>	But gconf is out for 3.0, right?
 128 Jul 08 08:49:41 <joanie>	So I don't think it *can* find a mixed environment
 129 Jul 08 08:50:24 <API>	yes it can, but I suppose that it is not the ideal situation
 130 Jul 08 08:50:36 <dexem>	the gconf/gsettings migration is a "as best as possible" scenario or is it mandatory?
 131 Jul 08 08:50:46 <joanie>	I thought it was mandatory
 132 Jul 08 08:50:52 <API>	dexem, as best as possible, afaik
 133 Jul 08 08:51:36 <danigm>	API: should I change the risk level of evince?
 134 Jul 08 08:51:46 <dexem>	API: I imagine it should be, although looking at the gnome 3 schedule, there is a "countdown" of modules with gconf
 135 Jul 08 08:51:51 <dexem>	or expected countdown
 136 Jul 08 08:52:09 <API>	danigm, yes it is a good idea, it was high because nobody was assigned to that task,
 137 Jul 08 08:52:21 <API>	danigm, I think that medium risk is fine
 138 Jul 08 08:52:34 <API>	danigm, people assigned but work not finished
 139 Jul 08 08:53:19 <API>	dexem, and this links to my other comment
 140 Jul 08 08:53:25 <API>	on the agenda
 141 Jul 08 08:53:34 <API>	right now the main gconf var
 142 Jul 08 08:53:44 <API>	"/desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility"
 143 Jul 08 08:53:55 <API>	the one saying if a11yy is enabled
 144 Jul 08 08:54:10 <API>	are defined in a schema from libgnome
 145 Jul 08 08:54:18 *	API or was libgnomeui?
 146 Jul 08 08:54:23 <API>	correct me if I'm wrong
 147 Jul 08 08:54:47 <API>	and as you know
 148 Jul 08 08:54:53 <API>	both are deprecated
 149 Jul 08 08:55:12 <aleiva>	hi, sorry, late
 150 Jul 08 08:55:24 <API>	so probably this is a good moment to define it as a gsettins var
 151 Jul 08 08:55:30 <API>	and in other library
 152 Jul 08 08:55:48 <API>	joanie, you know if there were plans to move that gconf var to other place?
 153 Jul 08 08:55:59 <joanie>	I'm not aware of any
 154 Jul 08 08:56:08 <API>	my limited memory things that I read something about it in the past
 155 Jul 08 08:56:10 <API>	but not sure
 156 Jul 08 08:56:21 <mgorse>	It's in the at-spi schema, unless I'm missing something
 157 Jul 08 08:56:57 <mgorse>	regardless, it needs to be a g_settings variable, though
 158 Jul 08 08:57:27 *	API checking....
 159 Jul 08 08:57:39 <API>	mgorse, btw, you have started the g_setting migration also?
 160 Jul 08 08:58:14 <API>	mgorse, I have just reviewed at-spi2.schemas.in
 161 Jul 08 08:58:20 <API>	and vars defined here are
 162 Jul 08 08:58:36 <API>	schemas/apps/gnome_settings_daemon/gtk-modules/gail:atk-bridge
 163 Jul 08 08:58:37 <API>	and
 164 Jul 08 08:58:44 <API>	schemas/desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbus
 165 Jul 08 08:59:18 <API>	one option could add that gconf/g_setting var here
 166 Jul 08 08:59:20 <API>	after all
 167 Jul 08 08:59:29 <mgorse>	API: I haven't yet. I ought to work on it this weekend, since 2.31.5 is due Monday
 168 Jul 08 08:59:30 <API>	without at-spi you don't have a11y support
 169 Jul 08 09:01:16 <mgorse>	right
 170 Jul 08 09:01:30 *	API btw mgorse https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28580
 171 Jul 08 09:02:08 <API>	ok, well, as we are out of time
 172 Jul 08 09:02:13 <API>	we can conclude this point as
 173 Jul 08 09:02:32 <API>	"probably at-spi is a good place to put it, further investigation is required"
 174 Jul 08 09:02:50 <API>	so, anyone want to share a final thought before officially
 175 Jul 08 09:02:57 <API>	concluding the a11y meeting?
 176 Jul 08 09:03:04 <joanie>	I do, actually
 177 Jul 08 09:03:13 <joanie>	https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591258
 178 Jul 08 09:03:25 <joanie>	And maybe I should just add that to my list
 179 Jul 08 09:03:49 <joanie>	But when people come to the gnome-accessibility-list and ask for our opinion on the accessibility of a change....
 180 Jul 08 09:03:58 <joanie>	And we totally do not respond, it's kinda sucky
 181 Jul 08 09:04:03 <joanie>	And I've not seen anyone respond
 182 Jul 08 09:04:53 <API>	joanie, yes indeed, .... well, I have take a brief look on the bug, but 
 183 Jul 08 09:05:21 <API>	I havent test it, although I didn't realize any a11y related issue
 184 Jul 08 09:06:05 <joanie>	API do you have time to take a closer look?
 185 Jul 08 09:06:11 <joanie>	Or should I add it to my list?
 186 Jul 08 09:07:31 <API>	joanie, well, it seems that what it is required
 187 Jul 08 09:07:35 <API>	is apply the patch 
 188 Jul 08 09:07:44 <API>	and test it with Orca, or other a11y tool
 189 Jul 08 09:07:45 <API>	right?
 190 Jul 08 09:07:47 <joanie>	I know that
 191 Jul 08 09:07:57 <joanie>	DayJob, Orca, etc., etc.
 192 Jul 08 09:08:01 <joanie>	I'll add it to my list
 193 Jul 08 09:09:15 <API>	joanie, ok thanks, try to avoid that universe becoming a subset of your list
 194 Jul 08 09:09:35 <joanie>	That's what I was trying to do ;-)
 195 Jul 08 09:13:38 <API>	ok, lets conclude the meeting now
 196 Jul 08 09:13:48 <API>	as we are *really* out of time
 197 Jul 08 09:13:58 <API>	anyway, if the people are interested
 198 Jul 08 09:14:13 *	yev|away is now known as yevlempy
 199 Jul 08 09:14:18 <API>	now a parallel topic
 200 Jul 08 09:14:36 <API>	dexem, wants to talks about current caribou status
 201 Jul 08 09:14:38 <API>	dexem, ?
 202 Jul 08 09:14:48 <dexem>	hi
 203 Jul 08 09:14:57 <dexem>	just a small status update
 204 Jul 08 09:15:33 <dexem>	dpellicer and me have been doing some work for caribou during the last weeks
 205 Jul 08 09:16:04 <dexem>	I'm now trying to integrate those changes and uploading them as patches to bugzilla
 206 Jul 08 09:16:35 <dexem>	We would do it directly to different branches on git, but I asked for an account some time ago
 207 Jul 08 09:16:45 <dexem>	and I haven't received a response yet :P
 208 Jul 08 09:17:03 <joanie>	Some time ago == how long ago?
 209 Jul 08 09:17:17 <dexem>	I was checking it to be accurate
 210 Jul 08 09:17:23 <dexem>	but like two weeks ago
 211 Jul 08 09:17:26 <dexem>	if not three :P
 212 Jul 08 09:17:31 <API>	dexem, well, as I already said to you, sometimes there are a big delay on their answer
 213 Jul 08 09:17:37 <joanie>	official time is 2 to 4 weeks
 214 Jul 08 09:17:45 <API>	you can try to make a gently ping
 215 Jul 08 09:18:17 <joanie>	dexem: Alternatively, who is vouching for you? eeejay?
 216 Jul 08 09:18:59 <dexem>	uhm, I said that I was going to work on caribou, so I suppose he is
 217 Jul 08 09:19:12 <dexem>	and also I added some other names from GNOME Hispano
 218 Jul 08 09:19:23 <dexem>	who surely would vouch for me as well
 219 Jul 08 09:19:54 <joanie>	The reason I ask is that if an existing module maintainer pings the accounts team saying that they really need you to have git access, it might speed things up
 220 Jul 08 09:20:18 <dexem>	anyway, now I first need some time to extract those patches
 221 Jul 08 09:20:19 <joanie>	Since this is caribou-related, maybe eeejay can send such a message?
 222 Jul 08 09:20:26 <dexem>	joanie: ok
 223 Jul 08 09:20:35 <dexem>	yes I think he could
 224 Jul 08 09:20:43 <dexem>	I'll try to ping him again
 225 Jul 08 09:20:56 <dexem>	I did it on tuesday, because caribou missed the last release
 226 Jul 08 09:21:08 <joanie>	ugh
 227 Jul 08 09:21:13 <dexem>	and maybe he wants help also for make the tarballs or something
 228 Jul 08 09:21:53 <dexem>	I think it would be in high risk if it misses a second one :P
 229 Jul 08 09:22:14 <joanie>	it's certainly not looked upon favorably
 230 Jul 08 09:24:15 <dexem>	well, that's mostly the big picture
 231 Jul 08 09:28:56 <API>	ok dexem thanks for the update
 232 Jul 08 09:29:26 *	jpwhiting has quit (Remote closed the connection)
 233 Jul 08 09:34:00 *	andre (~andre@dslb-092-076-132-102.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #a11y
 234 Jul 08 09:51:53 *	Disconnected (Invalid argument).
 235 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul  8 09:51:53 2010