1 (11:02:17 AM) API: well, it is time
   2 (11:02:25 AM) API: I think that we can start the meeting
   3 (11:02:35 AM) fer: is Peter K attending?
   4 (11:02:38 AM) API: someone want to take the meeting scepter first?
   5 (11:02:43 AM) API: fer, don't know
   6 (11:02:51 AM) joanie: fer: I believe he's still traveling
   7 (11:02:57 AM) API: he said that he will be very busy this days
   8 (11:03:04 AM) API: *these* days
   9 (11:03:42 AM) mgorse: Is someone figuring out logistics for the conference / accommodations? is Peter doing that? Or someone in Seville?
  10 (11:04:15 AM) API: mgorse, AFAIK, fer aleiva and some other people
  11 (11:04:20 AM) API: like juanje
  12 (11:04:27 AM) API: (not sure about his nickname)
  13 (11:04:41 AM) fer: well, I'm not in seville, so I cannot help with the location
  14 (11:04:42 AM) API: are starting to coordinate it
  15 (11:04:47 AM) mgorse: Okay. I'm going to attempt to get funding from Novell to come, but I need an estimate as to the cost
  16 (11:05:13 AM) Bryen: mgorse, some of us here are already teaming up to discuss all logistics and planning. We decided not to make the discussion too broad so we don't get clobbered with too many "I wannas" but we'll be opening it up soon, no doubt.
  17 (11:05:17 AM) API: fer, I suppose that this one of the reasons you were asking for peter korn
  18 (11:05:38 AM) fer: API: yes, and about the funding
  19 (11:05:56 AM) API: fer, some news about CENATIC funding?
  20 (11:06:25 AM) fer: I got an initial proposal, but didn't get any news from GNOME Hispano about presenting on its behalf
  21 (11:06:33 AM) fer: I can poke them later today
  22 (11:07:10 AM) API: so right now the idea is presenting this one (and the GUADEC-es) using GNOME Hispano
  23 (11:07:19 AM) API: try to talk with chema
  24 (11:07:20 AM) API: txenoo
  25 (11:07:21 AM) fer: I think so
  26 (11:07:26 AM) Bryen: Who's going to Guadec?
  27 (11:07:28 AM) fer: oki, will do it
  28 (11:07:33 AM) fer: I am
  29 (11:07:36 AM) API: I think that he is the one coordinating the guadec-es thing
  30 (11:08:00 AM) API: more about funding...
  31 (11:08:08 AM) API: Bryen, in one of the previous meetings
  32 (11:08:12 AM) API: I don't remember which
  33 (11:08:23 AM) API: you talked about trying to find additional funding sources
  34 (11:08:43 AM) API: any idea/new since them=
  35 (11:08:45 AM) API: ?
  36 (11:09:12 AM) Bryen: yes, that's something I want to focus on in the immediate future. I don't want us draining our existing fund that we have at GNOME Foundation, because we need those funds for additional initiatives as well.
  37 (11:09:39 AM) Bryen: So what I want to do first, once our logistics are fairly figured out is start dividing up costs with associated function and then get busy appealing to potential sponsors
  38 (11:09:59 AM) Bryen: like " Company A sponsors hotels" "Company B sponsors travel" "Company C sponsors something else" etc.
  39 (11:10:08 AM) msanchez: I am going as well to both Guadecs
  40 (11:10:23 AM) API: but you have in mind specific companies/institutions to poke?
  41 (11:10:51 AM) Bryen: not yet
  42 (11:10:56 AM) fer: Bryen: from the CENATIC point of view what we want in exchange for the funding is just press, and having the logo in the website and so on
  43 (11:11:11 AM) Bryen: I just finally got off the road this past weekend, API. And I have no major travel scheduled until late August. YAY! More time for you guys!
  44 (11:11:28 AM) fer: I guess that the l.g.o page and some press release from the Foundation would be enough
  45 (11:11:38 AM) Bryen: fer, yes. As a rule of thumb for sponsorship is you always ahve to think "What's in it for me?" :-)
  46 (11:11:58 AM) API: ok, Bryen thanks
  47 (11:12:07 AM) API: so I think that there isn't too much to talk about funding today
  48 (11:12:16 AM) API: we can keep that point for the next meeting
  49 (11:12:18 AM) Bryen: yeah one more funding question...
  50 (11:12:30 AM) Bryen: What's your bank account number and PIN number, API?
  51 (11:12:45 AM) API: 123456
  52 (11:13:00 AM) ***API checking agenda for other points...
  53 (11:13:17 AM) API: well, in theory the schedule should have started to take form
  54 (11:13:28 AM) API: this was joanie and API mission
  55 (11:13:29 AM) API: hmm
  56 (11:13:37 AM) API: work in progress ...
  57 (11:13:48 AM) API: joanie, something to add?
  58 (11:14:05 AM) joanie: API: not really. But let's make a point for us to sit down and tackle that work
  59 (11:14:23 AM) joanie: API: later today? tomorrow?
  60 (11:14:31 AM) Bryen: API, I'd like to insert an Outreach hackfest in that schedule. For those of us who go that aren't coders
  61 (11:15:21 AM) API: joanie, today it would be really hard, after the meeting I need to rush out
  62 (11:15:53 AM) joanie: API tomorrow? or Monday??
  63 (11:16:09 AM) API: joanie, monday
  64 (11:16:14 AM) API: Bryen, ok, it makes sense
  65 (11:16:18 AM) joanie: API: awesome. thanks!
  66 (11:17:09 AM) ***API checking more about AEGIS hackfest ...
  67 (11:17:18 AM) joanie: Bryen: possible topics should be added to the wiki if you've not already done so
  68 (11:17:27 AM) API: ok, I have noted about announcement
  69 (11:17:40 AM) API: I made a post on p.g.o, other ideas?
  70 (11:17:50 AM) fer: I can make another one
  71 (11:17:52 AM) API: anyway, you *all* are free to announce it everywhere
  72 (11:18:02 AM) fer: but I think it would be better to do it when we know the location :)
  73 (11:18:10 AM) ***joanie chuckles
  74 (11:18:22 AM) API: fer, yes good point, we still don't know where the hackfest is ;)
  75 (11:18:24 AM) API: seville is really big
  76 (11:18:28 AM) Bryen: joanie, sure
  77 (11:18:52 AM) API: ok, we can conclude announcement as: "spread the new over the world people"
  78 (11:19:59 AM) API: when, anyone has something to add about AEGIS hackfest?
  79 (11:20:27 AM) Bryen: I think we're done on that
  80 (11:21:27 AM) API: ok, a last reminder, we need to contact peter korn to the exact place
  81 (11:21:48 AM) API: Bryen, other point was the outreach/hfoss
  82 (11:21:49 AM) joanie: API I'll email him
  83 (11:22:01 AM) API: ok, thanks joanie
  84 (11:22:17 AM) API: Bryen, as far as I remember you were trying to coordinate another meeting
  85 (11:22:26 AM) API: any luck?
  86 (11:22:31 AM) Bryen: API, yeah, I was hoping to see Patrick here and see what his status is. I'm not sure if the hfoss thing is finally back together or if it fell through. I'll have to email Norman and get a status report.
  87 (11:22:58 AM) Bryen: Patrick did initially respond to the interns queries. But not sure if I got off-listed after that.
  88 (11:23:49 AM) Bryen: <topic end> :-)
  89 (11:23:53 AM) API: to be sincere, right now Im somewhat lost about the current HFOSS and outreach status
  90 (11:24:00 AM) joanie: API http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010
  91 (11:24:01 AM) API: or the relationship between them
  92 (11:24:03 AM) API: if any
  93 (11:24:10 AM) joanie: (sorry, but here's a venue)
  94 (11:24:32 AM) API: ah ok, thanks joanie
  95 (11:24:37 AM) API: I didn't know it was updated
  96 (11:24:45 AM) Bryen: API, Flavio had to back out at the last minute, and so I was stuck trying to coordinate just as I was leaving the country with new mentor.
  97 (11:24:49 AM) API: good to new, a problem less
  98 (11:24:56 AM) joanie: me neither (I think Peter logged in as me lol)
  99 (11:25:12 AM) Bryen: so its been a challenge, and a lesson to me that we need to better formulate our internship outreach programs in the future.
 100 (11:25:18 AM) API: Bryen, it would be awesome if you, or slee, or somebody could sent a mail to gnome-accessibility mailing list
 101 (11:25:28 AM) Bryen: about what?
 102 (11:25:28 AM) API: in order to summarize the current status of both
 103 (11:25:44 AM) Bryen: just as soon as I find out more info. :-)
 104 (11:26:11 AM) API: it would be also awesome a introduction explaining the purpose of both ;)
 105 (11:26:55 AM) API: well, as Bryen close the topic 5 minutes ago
 106 (11:27:03 AM) API: I suppose that we can move to the next point
 107 (11:27:12 AM) Bryen: ok
 108 (11:27:14 AM) API: in the brief agenda I created last week I have this:
 109 (11:27:22 AM) API: "gnome-mag is still in the air, no volunteers, the problem is still here "
 110 (11:27:45 AM) API: clown, something new?
 111 (11:27:58 AM) API: any advance in at least gs-magnifier api?
 112 (11:28:00 AM) clown: API, no I have heard nothing
 113 (11:28:20 AM) clown: API, are you asking about gnome-mag or gs-mag (or both)?
 114 (11:28:48 AM) clown: re: gs-mag, there is better communication between Orca and gs-mag
 115 (11:28:53 AM) API: clown, for anything related with this topic ;)
 116 (11:28:57 AM) API: one side or the other
 117 (11:29:10 AM) clown: okay, re: gnome-mag, I have no news.
 118 (11:29:37 AM) clown: but, for Orca <-> gs-mag, I have been filing/fixing bugs that improves the communication.
 119 (11:29:52 AM) joanie: Yay clown! :-) Thanks for doing that
 120 (11:29:57 AM) clown: so, some progress.
 121 (11:30:09 AM) clown: my pleasure (really), joanie
 122 (11:30:10 AM) API: ok, so at least the work in gs-mag is going on
 123 (11:30:18 AM) API: it is gnome-mag the one stucked
 124 (11:30:36 AM) clown: there were presentations at aegis europe re: gs-mag, but I haven't been debriefed yet.
 125 (11:30:43 AM) API: just for curiosity, and using my ignorance, there are a lot of people using this app?
 126 (11:30:44 AM) API: I mean
 127 (11:30:52 AM) API: AFAIK it always have performance problems
 128 (11:31:00 AM) joanie: API you mean gnome-mag?
 129 (11:31:01 AM) API: and some people prefered to use
 130 (11:31:06 AM) API: non-a11y related things
 131 (11:31:19 AM) API: joanie, yes, gnome-mag, the one without developers
 132 (11:31:23 AM) joanie: lol
 133 (11:31:27 AM) clown: API, my impression is that since it is currently CORBA based, it won't be there at all pretty soon.
 134 (11:31:31 AM) API: non-a11y related apps, like compiz
 135 (11:31:50 AM) joanie: but that's why gnome-mag need to be moved to d-bus
 136 (11:31:57 AM) API: yes, yes
 137 (11:31:58 AM) clown: joanie, right.
 138 (11:32:06 AM) API: just asking about the current user community
 139 (11:32:10 AM) API: just to guess
 140 (11:32:15 AM) joanie: and it's buggy, but there are some users. And there will continue to be a handful I'd guess
 141 (11:32:17 AM) API: (I don't want to be cruel)
 142 (11:32:22 AM) API: how important it would be
 143 (11:32:24 AM) clown: API, understood
 144 (11:32:26 AM) joanie: you're not API :-)
 145 (11:32:36 AM) API: ok, thanks joanie
 146 (11:32:38 AM) fer: yeah, probably the ones still using GNOME Panel with GNOME 3 instead of Shell
 147 (11:32:44 AM) joanie: fer: exactly
 148 (11:32:56 AM) joanie: so I think losing that would suck
 149 (11:32:56 AM) API: yeah, but as far as I understood
 150 (11:32:58 AM) fer: would it be hard to port to dbus?
 151 (11:33:05 AM) API: a lot of people prefered to use things like
 152 (11:33:12 AM) clown: newbie question (possibly for another time): what is "GNOME Panel"?
 153 (11:33:16 AM) API: compiz to magnify
 154 (11:33:19 AM) joanie: API right, but those things don't do cursor tracking, etc
 155 (11:33:21 AM) API: due performance
 156 (11:33:35 AM) clown: fer, carlos was porting gnome-mag to DBus, and got part way.
 157 (11:33:36 AM) Bryen: clown, that bar across the top or bottom of your window.
 158 (11:33:46 AM) joanie: API so if the user is mag + primarily keyboard, it's a problem
 159 (11:33:48 AM) ***clown thanks Bryen
 160 (11:33:55 AM) fer: clown: just asked him at #gnome-hackers :)
 161 (11:33:58 AM) ***Bryen honks clown
 162 (11:34:13 AM) ***clown hey! rubs nose
 163 (11:34:20 AM) API: joanie, ok thanks
 164 (11:34:21 AM) fer: clown: oh, he already worked on gnome-mag! great!
 165 (11:34:34 AM) API: fer, ?¿
 166 (11:34:55 AM) API: fer, clown has worked in gs-mag
 167 (11:35:05 AM) fer: API: I asked kal about the effort porting gnome-applets from bonobo to dbus, to try to get a estimation for gnome-mag porting
 168 (11:35:37 AM) API: ah ok, sorry, when you said "he" I thought in clown
 169 (11:36:08 AM) API: fer, so he was checking gnome-mag as part of this migration?
 170 (11:36:16 AM) API: he has the intention to continue on it?
 171 (11:37:15 AM) fer: no idea
 172 (11:37:30 AM) API: ;)
 173 (11:37:54 AM) fer: I didn't even know that he started working on it :)
 174 (11:38:07 AM) API: anyway, fer, when you are talking about carlos you mean carlos garcia campos, right?
 175 (11:38:16 AM) fer: yup, KaL
 176 (11:38:40 AM) API: I ask that because the maintainer of gnome-mag, the one that can't keep working on it is carlos diogenes
 177 (11:38:48 AM) clown: API, I was referring to carolos diogenes
 178 (11:38:54 AM) clown: "carlos"
 179 (11:39:01 AM) API: and fer about carlos garcia
 180 (11:39:03 AM) API: ;)
 181 (11:39:04 AM) fer: ahh, ok
 182 (11:39:04 AM) Bryen: guys and gals, you know I love you all, but I have to admit I seriously need to get up away from this computer. been glued to meetings since 7 a.m and more to come. Hope you don't mind if I bow out at this time.
 183 (11:39:04 AM) fer: :)
 184 (11:39:11 AM) API: so trying to avoid mixing names
 185 (11:39:28 AM) ***clown honks Bryen, as he walks out the door...
 186 (11:39:37 AM) heidi: Bryen: Before you go....
 187 (11:39:38 AM) API: Bryen, ok
 188 (11:39:47 AM) Bryen: oh heidi you're here!
 189 (11:39:56 AM) ***Bryen stays
 190 (11:40:01 AM) heidi: Bryen: Quick question: Is Caribou a good direction to explore for fall projects for undergrads?
 191 (11:40:08 AM) heidi: :-) Yup, I've been observing.
 192 (11:40:53 AM) Bryen: I think it is. We seem to be in a gap with who is actually maintaining Caribou at the moment, but there's a lot of interest in Caribou and it deserves the attention for your project.
 193 (11:41:33 AM) API: eeejay, you here? some people asking about Caribou...
 194 (11:41:36 AM) heidi: OK, thanks. I've got a student who wants to do some looking into it so I'll give him the go ahead. My goal is to identify a likely piece of work by the end of July.
 195 (11:41:39 AM) Bryen: so really, the outstanding issue for you is making sure you have a proper mentor lined up
 196 (11:41:47 AM) heidi: Yes, that too ;-)
 197 (11:42:20 AM) Bryen: heidi, let's touch bases next week. I actually have a fairly clear plate next week (Miracles do happen!)
 198 (11:42:27 AM) heidi: Originally jrocha and dpellicer were suggested. Don't know if that still fits.
 199 (11:42:54 AM) heidi: Umm, I'm leaving Saturday on vacation to a cabin in Maine where I'll have to travel to the local library for internet access.
 200 (11:43:16 AM) heidi: sorry, didn't mean to spoil the miracle :-)
 201 (11:43:57 AM) Bryen: ok how about I look for you tmorw?
 202 (11:44:04 AM) Bryen: tmw is a freeday for me
 203 (11:44:12 AM) heidi: Sure, that works for me.
 204 (11:44:16 AM) Bryen: great
 205 (11:44:21 AM) heidi: When and where? Here?
 206 (11:44:30 AM) Bryen: here, same time as now :-)
 207 (11:44:36 AM) heidi: OK, works for me!
 208 (11:44:44 AM) heidi: One more thing. Is anyone going to OSCON in July? I'm on vacation without internet access for the next two weeks and I thought I'd see if anyone was going.
 209 (11:45:00 AM) heidi: There is a BOF organized by the TeachingOpenSource group Monday night.
 210 (11:45:01 AM) ***Bryen wanted to go but didn't plan it early enough
 211 (11:45:06 AM) heidi: :-(
 212 (11:45:35 AM) Bryen: maybe I can still wing it, let's talk about that tmw too
 213 (11:45:49 AM) heidi: OK, just wanted to invite anyone interested to the teachingopensource BOF.
 214 (11:46:02 AM) heidi: Thanks! Thats all my questions.
 215 (11:46:34 AM) Bryen: API, back to you :-)
 216 (11:46:49 AM) API: ok, I have back the scepter
 217 (11:46:56 AM) API: to conclude with the gnome-mag thing
 218 (11:47:13 AM) API: fer, I think that we should contact carlos (garcia) in order to know his intentions
 219 (11:47:25 AM) API: and know if he can continue with carlos (diogenes) work
 220 (11:47:38 AM) fer: agreed
 221 (11:47:50 AM) API: mainly to know if carlos garcia knows anything about carlos diogenes work
 222 (11:48:01 AM) API: I don't have any clue if his work is public anywhere
 223 (11:48:19 AM) clown: API, it's in git somewhere.
 224 (11:48:26 AM) fer: have been looking for git repositories/branches out there in the past minutes, without any luck
 225 (11:48:40 AM) clown: I've looked it over at various times to see what the api was.
 226 (11:48:47 AM) fer: clown: what is carlos diogenes nickname/login?
 227 (11:48:57 AM) clown: fer: dunno.
 228 (11:49:15 AM) ***clown looking for the link to source
 229 (11:50:35 AM) clown: here: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-mag/
 230 (11:51:07 AM) fer: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2010-May/msg00121.html
 231 (11:51:11 AM) fer: so is it on master?
 232 (11:52:51 AM) clown: fer, not sure. I'd have to look deeper. It may be that carlos created a branch for the dbus work.
 233 (11:53:54 AM) fer: Author: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di<C3>genes <cerdiogenes@gmail.com>
 234 (11:53:54 AM) fer: Date: Fri Jan 22 20:27:27 2010 -0200
 235 (11:53:54 AM) fer: Committing the changes to support D-BUS. This initial implementation still support CORBA, so in some parts the D-BUS code affect the CORBA code to make the migration easier. After the CORBA deprecation the code can be better refactored.
 236 (11:54:00 AM) fer: that is on master
 237 (11:54:37 AM) clown: fer, actually, looking at the magnifier.c code on master, it looks like it has both corba and dbus includes suggesting that it switches depending on the environment it's running in. But, I would have to look at more closely to be completely sure that's what is going on.
 238 (11:54:54 AM) fer: yeah it looks like it
 239 (11:55:07 AM) clown: fer, oh, didn't see your quote before I sent. confirmed, I gues.
 240 (11:55:45 AM) fer: conclusion: work has been started but we need to find someone to finish it :)
 241 (11:55:55 AM) API: fer, ok good conclusion
 242 (11:55:57 AM) joanie: +1
 243 (11:55:57 AM) API: and just in time
 244 (11:56:00 AM) API: just 4 minutes
 245 (11:56:14 AM) API: fer, could you try to contact carlos about it
 246 (11:56:15 AM) API: ?
 247 (11:56:21 AM) fer: okey
 248 (11:56:34 AM) API: fer, here the last updates of this gnome-mag thing
 249 (11:56:36 AM) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3#gnome-mag_.28port_to_D-Bus.29
 250 (11:56:53 AM) API: so if he was working on it, he can update the section
 251 (11:57:22 AM) API: if he finally agrees to help a little, he should try to talk with clown and joanie
 252 (11:57:31 AM) mgorse: We also need to make the applets work with at-spi
 253 (11:57:35 AM) API: in order to implement the common dbus api
 254 (11:57:44 AM) fer: mgorse: what do you mean?
 255 (11:58:05 AM) mgorse: and I don't really understand how it all works, so it would be useful to talk about it with someone who understands it
 256 (11:58:33 AM) fer: mgorse: gnome-applets were usining bonobo, and Kal ported them to use dbus...
 257 (11:58:37 AM) mgorse: or maybe I'm talking about something different
 258 (11:59:04 AM) fer: but that should not affect at their interation with at-spi
 259 (11:59:05 AM) mgorse: fer: Right; we need to test whether they're exposed
 260 (11:59:31 AM) mgorse: libgail-gnome used to handle that; it defined classes for the bonobo-based plug and socket widgets
 261 (12:00:15 PM) fer: ok, so another point here. Check a11y status of the gnome-applets dbus branch
 262 (12:00:31 PM) fer: branch is...
 263 (12:00:41 PM) mgorse: Oh; is it still i a branch, and not in master yet?
 264 (12:00:55 PM) fer: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~carlosgc/gnome-applets/log/?h=libpanel-applet-dbus-merge
 265 (12:01:00 PM) fer: not the last time I checked
 266 (12:01:03 PM) fer: let me re-check it
 267 (12:01:06 PM) mgorse: ok
 268 (12:02:02 PM) fer: not merged yet
 269 (12:02:29 PM) heidi: Gotta run. Thanks for the input today. bye...
 270 (12:02:46 PM) heidi left the room (quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]).
 271 (12:04:20 PM) API: well people, I think that we can conclude this a11y meeting
 272 (12:04:30 PM) API: it would be hard to write today the minutes
 273 (12:04:36 PM) API: I will try to upload them tomorrow
 274 (12:04:49 PM) API: any last-quick-and-brief thing to finish the meeting?
 275 (12:08:53 PM) API: ok, meeting officially closed
 276 (12:08:55 PM) API: thanks to attend