(11:02:17 AM) API: well, it is time
(11:02:25 AM) API: I think that we can start the meeting
(11:02:35 AM) fer: is Peter K attending?
(11:02:38 AM) API: someone want to take the meeting scepter first?
(11:02:43 AM) API: fer, don't know
(11:02:51 AM) joanie: fer: I believe he's still traveling
(11:02:57 AM) API: he said that he will be very busy this days
(11:03:04 AM) API: *these* days
(11:03:42 AM) mgorse: Is someone figuring out logistics for the conference / accommodations? is Peter doing that? Or someone in Seville?
(11:04:15 AM) API: mgorse, AFAIK, fer aleiva and some other people
(11:04:20 AM) API: like juanje
(11:04:27 AM) API: (not sure about his nickname)
(11:04:41 AM) fer: well, I'm not in seville, so I cannot help with the location
(11:04:42 AM) API: are starting to coordinate it
(11:04:47 AM) mgorse: Okay. I'm going to attempt to get funding from Novell to come, but I need an estimate as to the cost
(11:05:13 AM) Bryen: mgorse, some of us here are already teaming up to discuss all logistics and planning. We decided not to make the discussion too broad so we don't get clobbered with too many "I wannas" but we'll be opening it up soon, no doubt.
(11:05:17 AM) API: fer, I suppose that this one of the reasons you were asking for peter korn
(11:05:38 AM) fer: API: yes, and about the funding
(11:05:56 AM) API: fer, some news about CENATIC funding?
(11:06:25 AM) fer: I got an initial proposal, but didn't get any news from GNOME Hispano about presenting on its behalf
(11:06:33 AM) fer: I can poke them later today
(11:07:10 AM) API: so right now the idea is presenting this one (and the GUADEC-es) using GNOME Hispano
(11:07:19 AM) API: try to talk with chema
(11:07:20 AM) API: txenoo
(11:07:21 AM) fer: I think so
(11:07:26 AM) Bryen: Who's going to Guadec?
(11:07:28 AM) fer: oki, will do it
(11:07:33 AM) fer: I am
(11:07:36 AM) API: I think that he is the one coordinating the guadec-es thing
(11:08:00 AM) API: more about funding...
(11:08:08 AM) API: Bryen, in one of the previous meetings
(11:08:12 AM) API: I don't remember which
(11:08:23 AM) API: you talked about trying to find additional funding sources
(11:08:43 AM) API: any idea/new since them=
(11:08:45 AM) API: ?
(11:09:12 AM) Bryen: yes, that's something I want to focus on in the immediate future. I don't want us draining our existing fund that we have at GNOME Foundation, because we need those funds for additional initiatives as well.
(11:09:39 AM) Bryen: So what I want to do first, once our logistics are fairly figured out is start dividing up costs with associated function and then get busy appealing to potential sponsors
(11:09:59 AM) Bryen: like " Company A sponsors hotels" "Company B sponsors travel" "Company C sponsors something else" etc.
(11:10:08 AM) msanchez: I am going as well to both Guadecs
(11:10:23 AM) API: but you have in mind specific companies/institutions to poke?
(11:10:51 AM) Bryen: not yet
(11:10:56 AM) fer: Bryen: from the CENATIC point of view what we want in exchange for the funding is just press, and having the logo in the website and so on
(11:11:11 AM) Bryen: I just finally got off the road this past weekend, API. And I have no major travel scheduled until late August. YAY! More time for you guys!
(11:11:28 AM) fer: I guess that the l.g.o page and some press release from the Foundation would be enough
(11:11:38 AM) Bryen: fer, yes. As a rule of thumb for sponsorship is you always ahve to think "What's in it for me?" :-)
(11:11:58 AM) API: ok, Bryen thanks
(11:12:07 AM) API: so I think that there isn't too much to talk about funding today
(11:12:16 AM) API: we can keep that point for the next meeting
(11:12:18 AM) Bryen: yeah one more funding question...
(11:12:30 AM) Bryen: What's your bank account number and PIN number, API?
(11:12:45 AM) API: 123456
(11:13:00 AM) ***API checking agenda for other points...
(11:13:17 AM) API: well, in theory the schedule should have started to take form
(11:13:28 AM) API: this was joanie and API mission
(11:13:29 AM) API: hmm
(11:13:37 AM) API: work in progress ...
(11:13:48 AM) API: joanie, something to add?
(11:14:05 AM) joanie: API: not really. But let's make a point for us to sit down and tackle that work
(11:14:23 AM) joanie: API: later today? tomorrow?
(11:14:31 AM) Bryen: API, I'd like to insert an Outreach hackfest in that schedule. For those of us who go that aren't coders
(11:15:21 AM) API: joanie, today it would be really hard, after the meeting I need to rush out
(11:15:53 AM) joanie: API tomorrow? or Monday??
(11:16:09 AM) API: joanie, monday
(11:16:14 AM) API: Bryen, ok, it makes sense
(11:16:18 AM) joanie: API: awesome. thanks!
(11:17:09 AM) ***API checking more about AEGIS hackfest ...
(11:17:18 AM) joanie: Bryen: possible topics should be added to the wiki if you've not already done so
(11:17:27 AM) API: ok, I have noted about announcement
(11:17:40 AM) API: I made a post on p.g.o, other ideas?
(11:17:50 AM) fer: I can make another one
(11:17:52 AM) API: anyway, you *all* are free to announce it everywhere
(11:18:02 AM) fer: but I think it would be better to do it when we know the location :)
(11:18:10 AM) ***joanie chuckles
(11:18:22 AM) API: fer, yes good point, we still don't know where the hackfest is ;)
(11:18:24 AM) API: seville is really big
(11:18:28 AM) Bryen: joanie, sure
(11:18:52 AM) API: ok, we can conclude announcement as: "spread the new over the world people"
(11:19:59 AM) API: when, anyone has something to add about AEGIS hackfest?
(11:20:27 AM) Bryen: I think we're done on that
(11:21:27 AM) API: ok, a last reminder, we need to contact peter korn to the exact place
(11:21:48 AM) API: Bryen, other point was the outreach/hfoss
(11:21:49 AM) joanie: API I'll email him
(11:22:01 AM) API: ok, thanks joanie
(11:22:17 AM) API: Bryen, as far as I remember you were trying to coordinate another meeting
(11:22:26 AM) API: any luck?
(11:22:31 AM) Bryen: API, yeah, I was hoping to see Patrick here and see what his status is. I'm not sure if the hfoss thing is finally back together or if it fell through. I'll have to email Norman and get a status report.
(11:22:58 AM) Bryen: Patrick did initially respond to the interns queries. But not sure if I got off-listed after that.
(11:23:49 AM) Bryen: <topic end> :-)
(11:23:53 AM) API: to be sincere, right now Im somewhat lost about the current HFOSS and outreach status
(11:24:00 AM) joanie: API http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010
(11:24:01 AM) API: or the relationship between them
(11:24:03 AM) API: if any
(11:24:10 AM) joanie: (sorry, but here's a venue)
(11:24:32 AM) API: ah ok, thanks joanie
(11:24:37 AM) API: I didn't know it was updated
(11:24:45 AM) Bryen: API, Flavio had to back out at the last minute, and so I was stuck trying to coordinate just as I was leaving the country with new mentor.
(11:24:49 AM) API: good to new, a problem less
(11:24:56 AM) joanie: me neither (I think Peter logged in as me lol)
(11:25:12 AM) Bryen: so its been a challenge, and a lesson to me that we need to better formulate our internship outreach programs in the future.
(11:25:18 AM) API: Bryen, it would be awesome if you, or slee, or somebody could sent a mail to gnome-accessibility mailing list
(11:25:28 AM) Bryen: about what?
(11:25:28 AM) API: in order to summarize the current status of both
(11:25:44 AM) Bryen: just as soon as I find out more info. :-)
(11:26:11 AM) API: it would be also awesome a introduction explaining the purpose of both ;)
(11:26:55 AM) API: well, as Bryen close the topic 5 minutes ago
(11:27:03 AM) API: I suppose that we can move to the next point
(11:27:12 AM) Bryen: ok
(11:27:14 AM) API: in the brief agenda I created last week I have this:
(11:27:22 AM) API: "gnome-mag is still in the air, no volunteers, the problem is still here "
(11:27:45 AM) API: clown, something new?
(11:27:58 AM) API: any advance in at least gs-magnifier api?
(11:28:00 AM) clown: API, no I have heard nothing
(11:28:20 AM) clown: API, are you asking about gnome-mag or gs-mag (or both)?
(11:28:48 AM) clown: re: gs-mag, there is better communication between Orca and gs-mag
(11:28:53 AM) API: clown, for anything related with this topic ;)
(11:28:57 AM) API: one side or the other
(11:29:10 AM) clown: okay, re: gnome-mag, I have no news.
(11:29:37 AM) clown: but, for Orca <-> gs-mag, I have been filing/fixing bugs that improves the communication.
(11:29:52 AM) joanie: Yay clown! :-) Thanks for doing that
(11:29:57 AM) clown: so, some progress.
(11:30:09 AM) clown: my pleasure (really), joanie
(11:30:10 AM) API: ok, so at least the work in gs-mag is going on
(11:30:18 AM) API: it is gnome-mag the one stucked
(11:30:36 AM) clown: there were presentations at aegis europe re: gs-mag, but I haven't been debriefed yet.
(11:30:43 AM) API: just for curiosity, and using my ignorance, there are a lot of people using this app?
(11:30:44 AM) API: I mean
(11:30:52 AM) API: AFAIK it always have performance problems
(11:31:00 AM) joanie: API you mean gnome-mag?
(11:31:01 AM) API: and some people prefered to use
(11:31:06 AM) API: non-a11y related things
(11:31:19 AM) API: joanie, yes, gnome-mag, the one without developers
(11:31:23 AM) joanie: lol
(11:31:27 AM) clown: API, my impression is that since it is currently CORBA based, it won't be there at all pretty soon.
(11:31:31 AM) API: non-a11y related apps, like compiz
(11:31:50 AM) joanie: but that's why gnome-mag need to be moved to d-bus
(11:31:57 AM) API: yes, yes
(11:31:58 AM) clown: joanie, right.
(11:32:06 AM) API: just asking about the current user community
(11:32:10 AM) API: just to guess
(11:32:15 AM) joanie: and it's buggy, but there are some users. And there will continue to be a handful I'd guess
(11:32:17 AM) API: (I don't want to be cruel)
(11:32:22 AM) API: how important it would be
(11:32:24 AM) clown: API, understood
(11:32:26 AM) joanie: you're not API :-)
(11:32:36 AM) API: ok, thanks joanie
(11:32:38 AM) fer: yeah, probably the ones still using GNOME Panel with GNOME 3 instead of Shell
(11:32:44 AM) joanie: fer: exactly
(11:32:56 AM) joanie: so I think losing that would suck
(11:32:56 AM) API: yeah, but as far as I understood
(11:32:58 AM) fer: would it be hard to port to dbus?
(11:33:05 AM) API: a lot of people prefered to use things like
(11:33:12 AM) clown: newbie question (possibly for another time): what is "GNOME Panel"?
(11:33:16 AM) API: compiz to magnify
(11:33:19 AM) joanie: API right, but those things don't do cursor tracking, etc
(11:33:21 AM) API: due performance
(11:33:35 AM) clown: fer, carlos was porting gnome-mag to DBus, and got part way.
(11:33:36 AM) Bryen: clown, that bar across the top or bottom of your window.
(11:33:46 AM) joanie: API so if the user is mag + primarily keyboard, it's a problem
(11:33:48 AM) ***clown thanks Bryen
(11:33:55 AM) fer: clown: just asked him at #gnome-hackers :)
(11:33:58 AM) ***Bryen honks clown
(11:34:13 AM) ***clown hey! rubs nose
(11:34:20 AM) API: joanie, ok thanks
(11:34:21 AM) fer: clown: oh, he already worked on gnome-mag! great!
(11:34:34 AM) API: fer, ?¿
(11:34:55 AM) API: fer, clown has worked in gs-mag
(11:35:05 AM) fer: API: I asked kal about the effort porting gnome-applets from bonobo to dbus, to try to get a estimation for gnome-mag porting
(11:35:37 AM) API: ah ok, sorry, when you said "he" I thought in clown
(11:36:08 AM) API: fer, so he was checking gnome-mag as part of this migration?
(11:36:16 AM) API: he has the intention to continue on it?
(11:37:15 AM) fer: no idea
(11:37:30 AM) API: ;)
(11:37:54 AM) fer: I didn't even know that he started working on it :)
(11:38:07 AM) API: anyway, fer, when you are talking about carlos you mean carlos garcia campos, right?
(11:38:16 AM) fer: yup, KaL
(11:38:40 AM) API: I ask that because the maintainer of gnome-mag, the one that can't keep working on it is carlos diogenes
(11:38:48 AM) clown: API, I was referring to carolos diogenes
(11:38:54 AM) clown: "carlos"
(11:39:01 AM) API: and fer about carlos garcia
(11:39:03 AM) API: ;)
(11:39:04 AM) fer: ahh, ok
(11:39:04 AM) Bryen: guys and gals, you know I love you all, but I have to admit I seriously need to get up away from this computer. been glued to meetings since 7 a.m and more to come. Hope you don't mind if I bow out at this time.
(11:39:04 AM) fer: :)
(11:39:11 AM) API: so trying to avoid mixing names
(11:39:28 AM) ***clown honks Bryen, as he walks out the door...
(11:39:37 AM) heidi: Bryen: Before you go....
(11:39:38 AM) API: Bryen, ok
(11:39:47 AM) Bryen: oh heidi you're here!
(11:39:56 AM) ***Bryen stays
(11:40:01 AM) heidi: Bryen: Quick question: Is Caribou a good direction to explore for fall projects for undergrads?
(11:40:08 AM) heidi: :-) Yup, I've been observing.
(11:40:53 AM) Bryen: I think it is. We seem to be in a gap with who is actually maintaining Caribou at the moment, but there's a lot of interest in Caribou and it deserves the attention for your project.
(11:41:33 AM) API: eeejay, you here? some people asking about Caribou...
(11:41:36 AM) heidi: OK, thanks. I've got a student who wants to do some looking into it so I'll give him the go ahead. My goal is to identify a likely piece of work by the end of July.
(11:41:39 AM) Bryen: so really, the outstanding issue for you is making sure you have a proper mentor lined up
(11:41:47 AM) heidi: Yes, that too ;-)
(11:42:20 AM) Bryen: heidi, let's touch bases next week. I actually have a fairly clear plate next week (Miracles do happen!)
(11:42:27 AM) heidi: Originally jrocha and dpellicer were suggested. Don't know if that still fits.
(11:42:54 AM) heidi: Umm, I'm leaving Saturday on vacation to a cabin in Maine where I'll have to travel to the local library for internet access.
(11:43:16 AM) heidi: sorry, didn't mean to spoil the miracle :-)
(11:43:57 AM) Bryen: ok how about I look for you tmorw?
(11:44:04 AM) Bryen: tmw is a freeday for me
(11:44:12 AM) heidi: Sure, that works for me.
(11:44:16 AM) Bryen: great
(11:44:21 AM) heidi: When and where? Here?
(11:44:30 AM) Bryen: here, same time as now :-)
(11:44:36 AM) heidi: OK, works for me!
(11:44:44 AM) heidi: One more thing. Is anyone going to OSCON in July? I'm on vacation without internet access for the next two weeks and I thought I'd see if anyone was going.
(11:45:00 AM) heidi: There is a BOF organized by the TeachingOpenSource group Monday night.
(11:45:01 AM) ***Bryen wanted to go but didn't plan it early enough
(11:45:06 AM) heidi: :-(
(11:45:35 AM) Bryen: maybe I can still wing it, let's talk about that tmw too
(11:45:49 AM) heidi: OK, just wanted to invite anyone interested to the teachingopensource BOF.
(11:46:02 AM) heidi: Thanks! Thats all my questions.
(11:46:34 AM) Bryen: API, back to you :-)
(11:46:49 AM) API: ok, I have back the scepter
(11:46:56 AM) API: to conclude with the gnome-mag thing
(11:47:13 AM) API: fer, I think that we should contact carlos (garcia) in order to know his intentions
(11:47:25 AM) API: and know if he can continue with carlos (diogenes) work
(11:47:38 AM) fer: agreed
(11:47:50 AM) API: mainly to know if carlos garcia knows anything about carlos diogenes work
(11:48:01 AM) API: I don't have any clue if his work is public anywhere
(11:48:19 AM) clown: API, it's in git somewhere.
(11:48:26 AM) fer: have been looking for git repositories/branches out there in the past minutes, without any luck
(11:48:40 AM) clown: I've looked it over at various times to see what the api was.
(11:48:47 AM) fer: clown: what is carlos diogenes nickname/login?
(11:48:57 AM) clown: fer: dunno.
(11:49:15 AM) ***clown looking for the link to source
(11:50:35 AM) clown: here: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-mag/
(11:51:07 AM) fer: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2010-May/msg00121.html
(11:51:11 AM) fer: so is it on master?
(11:52:51 AM) clown: fer, not sure. I'd have to look deeper. It may be that carlos created a branch for the dbus work.
(11:53:54 AM) fer: Author: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di<C3>genes <cerdiogenes@gmail.com>
(11:53:54 AM) fer: Date: Fri Jan 22 20:27:27 2010 -0200
(11:53:54 AM) fer: Committing the changes to support D-BUS. This initial implementation still support CORBA, so in some parts the D-BUS code affect the CORBA code to make the migration easier. After the CORBA deprecation the code can be better refactored.
(11:54:00 AM) fer: that is on master
(11:54:37 AM) clown: fer, actually, looking at the magnifier.c code on master, it looks like it has both corba and dbus includes suggesting that it switches depending on the environment it's running in. But, I would have to look at more closely to be completely sure that's what is going on.
(11:54:54 AM) fer: yeah it looks like it
(11:55:07 AM) clown: fer, oh, didn't see your quote before I sent. confirmed, I gues.
(11:55:45 AM) fer: conclusion: work has been started but we need to find someone to finish it :)
(11:55:55 AM) API: fer, ok good conclusion
(11:55:57 AM) joanie: +1
(11:55:57 AM) API: and just in time
(11:56:00 AM) API: just 4 minutes
(11:56:14 AM) API: fer, could you try to contact carlos about it
(11:56:15 AM) API: ?
(11:56:21 AM) fer: okey
(11:56:34 AM) API: fer, here the last updates of this gnome-mag thing
(11:56:36 AM) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3#gnome-mag_.28port_to_D-Bus.29
(11:56:53 AM) API: so if he was working on it, he can update the section
(11:57:22 AM) API: if he finally agrees to help a little, he should try to talk with clown and joanie
(11:57:31 AM) mgorse: We also need to make the applets work with at-spi
(11:57:35 AM) API: in order to implement the common dbus api
(11:57:44 AM) fer: mgorse: what do you mean?
(11:58:05 AM) mgorse: and I don't really understand how it all works, so it would be useful to talk about it with someone who understands it
(11:58:33 AM) fer: mgorse: gnome-applets were usining bonobo, and Kal ported them to use dbus...
(11:58:37 AM) mgorse: or maybe I'm talking about something different
(11:59:04 AM) fer: but that should not affect at their interation with at-spi
(11:59:05 AM) mgorse: fer: Right; we need to test whether they're exposed
(11:59:31 AM) mgorse: libgail-gnome used to handle that; it defined classes for the bonobo-based plug and socket widgets
(12:00:15 PM) fer: ok, so another point here. Check a11y status of the gnome-applets dbus branch
(12:00:31 PM) fer: branch is...
(12:00:41 PM) mgorse: Oh; is it still i a branch, and not in master yet?
(12:00:55 PM) fer: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~carlosgc/gnome-applets/log/?h=libpanel-applet-dbus-merge
(12:01:00 PM) fer: not the last time I checked
(12:01:03 PM) fer: let me re-check it
(12:01:06 PM) mgorse: ok
(12:02:02 PM) fer: not merged yet
(12:02:29 PM) heidi: Gotta run. Thanks for the input today. bye...
(12:02:46 PM) heidi left the room (quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]).
(12:04:20 PM) API: well people, I think that we can conclude this a11y meeting
(12:04:30 PM) API: it would be hard to write today the minutes
(12:04:36 PM) API: I will try to upload them tomorrow
(12:04:49 PM) API: any last-quick-and-brief thing to finish the meeting?
(12:08:53 PM) API: ok, meeting officially closed
(12:08:55 PM) API: thanks to attend