1 Jun 10 07:56:34 *	Now talking on #a11y
   2 Jun 10 07:56:34 *	Topic for #a11y is: Visit us at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility | New weekly meeting times to be announced soon | See our latest meeting summary at http://bit.ly/ctMqVI | Follow us on Twitter:  @gnome_a11y | Subscribe to our mailing list at http://is.gd/bmcWR
   3 Jun 10 07:56:34 *	Topic for #a11y set by Bryen at Sat Apr 10 00:34:07 2010
   4 Jun 10 07:56:34 *	morbo gives channel operator status to API
   5 Jun 10 07:58:28 *	fer (~fer@218.229.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #a11y
   6 Jun 10 07:58:56 <fer>	morning
   7 Jun 10 08:00:04 *	mgorse (mgorse@192.94.73.30) has joined #a11y
   8 Jun 10 08:00:04 *	morbo gives channel operator status to mgorse
   9 Jun 10 08:01:42 <API>	morning
  10 Jun 10 08:02:09 <joanie>	morning is a relative term ;-)
  11 Jun 10 08:02:39 *	raywang has quit (Leaving)
  12 Jun 10 08:02:59 <API>	so lets say
  13 Jun 10 08:03:00 <API>	hia
  14 Jun 10 08:03:02 <API>	hi
  15 Jun 10 08:03:19 <joanie>	:-) thank you.
  16 Jun 10 08:03:49 <joanie>	API btw, my connection has been uber flakey. So if I come and go.... Well, my apologies in advance.
  17 Jun 10 08:04:07 *	TheMuso waves
  18 Jun 10 08:04:08 <fer>	you come and go...
  19 Jun 10 08:04:18 <fer>	wasn't it the karma chamaleon lyrics?
  20 Jun 10 08:04:36 <joanie>	fer: yes, I believe it was. ;-)
  21 Jun 10 08:04:45 <fer>	lovely!
  22 Jun 10 08:05:08 <API>	easy come, easy go
  23 Jun 10 08:05:16 <fer>	queen!
  24 Jun 10 08:05:16 <API>	also Bohemian Rhapsody lyrics
  25 Jun 10 08:05:18 <API>	anyway
  26 Jun 10 08:05:23 *	li_afk is now known as li
  27 Jun 10 08:05:29 <joanie>	love Bohemian Rhapsody!
  28 Jun 10 08:05:39 <API>	we have used already 5 minutes of the meeting
  29 Jun 10 08:05:46 <API>	I think that we can start
  30 Jun 10 08:06:09 <API>	yesterday I sent the rough agenda in a rush
  31 Jun 10 08:06:44 <API>	peter korn sent a mail saying that he is not coming
  32 Jun 10 08:06:56 <API>	but we can talk about AEGIS anyway
  33 Jun 10 08:07:10 <API>	fer, anything new about CENATIC funding?
  34 Jun 10 08:07:27 <fer>	today they publish the official tender 
  35 Jun 10 08:07:28 *	joanie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  36 Jun 10 08:07:30 <fer>	let me check
  37 Jun 10 08:07:42 <API>	I was talking with chema, and they pretend to ask this help also for GUADEC-ES
  38 Jun 10 08:07:48 <fer>	not online yet
  39 Jun 10 08:07:50 <API>	as he said in the mail list
  40 Jun 10 08:08:09 <fer>	yeah, we need to clarify if the same organization can ask for 2 separate sponsorships
  41 Jun 10 08:08:28 <fer>	if not, we should try to get it through another organization
  42 Jun 10 08:08:34 <fer>	any ideas for this?
  43 Jun 10 08:08:42 <fer>	(Spanish organization)
  44 Jun 10 08:08:49 *	joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y
  45 Jun 10 08:08:50 *	morbo gives channel operator status to joanie
  46 Jun 10 08:09:18 <API>	the issue is that a organization like GNOME hispano is the ideal
  47 Jun 10 08:09:20 <API>	imho
  48 Jun 10 08:09:27 <API>	to ask for this funding
  49 Jun 10 08:09:44 <fer>	let me check previous organizations granted with funds
  50 Jun 10 08:09:53 <API>	anyway, chema told me that shouldn't be a problem to ask for 2 separate sponsorships
  51 Jun 10 08:10:35 <fer>	a company can ask for it also
  52 Jun 10 08:10:39 <fer>	so ir could be a backup
  53 Jun 10 08:11:12 <API>	fer, is juanje here? I dont know his nick
  54 Jun 10 08:11:15 <fer>	anyway I think we should prepare the paperwork regardless who is going to finally ask for it
  55 Jun 10 08:11:26 <fer>	nop, he had to take a train at 7am
  56 Jun 10 08:12:42 <API>	a paperwork with "insert organization here" holes
  57 Jun 10 08:12:57 <API>	ok, you are volunteering ?
  58 Jun 10 08:13:05 <fer>	ok, I can do it
  59 Jun 10 08:13:24 *	rmunoz_ (~rmunoz@83.51.225.7) has joined #a11y
  60 Jun 10 08:13:57 <API>	ok awesome
  61 Jun 10 08:14:03 <API>	hmm Bryen is not here
  62 Jun 10 08:14:19 *	slee (~chatzilla@84.12.245.245) has joined #a11y
  63 Jun 10 08:14:20 <API>	joanie, you know if he couldn't assist?
  64 Jun 10 08:14:38 <joanie>	assist whom with what?
  65 Jun 10 08:14:44 <API>	ups
  66 Jun 10 08:14:46 <API>	I mean
  67 Jun 10 08:14:48 <fer>	attend
  68 Jun 10 08:14:49 <fer>	:)
  69 Jun 10 08:14:54 <API>	yeah :P
  70 Jun 10 08:15:08 <joanie>	I had forgotten about that until now but I think he said he wouldn't be here
  71 Jun 10 08:15:15 <API>	ok
  72 Jun 10 08:15:15 *	slee sorry late - connectivity
  73 Jun 10 08:15:31 <API>	Bryen wanted to talk about funding
  74 Jun 10 08:15:49 <API>	trying to get funds elsewhere, although I don't remember 
  75 Jun 10 08:15:54 <API>	exactly his idea
  76 Jun 10 08:16:54 <fer>	yeah, he also wanted some local people from Seville to try to help with the location
  77 Jun 10 08:17:25 <API>	fer, afaik right now you are living in Madrid
  78 Jun 10 08:17:41 <API>	have you talked with juanje?
  79 Jun 10 08:17:51 <aleiva>	Hi
  80 Jun 10 08:17:52 <fer>	yeah, Bryen sent an email to Peter K. saying danigm and me were in Seville
  81 Jun 10 08:17:54 <aleiva>	sorry I'm late
  82 Jun 10 08:18:03 <fer>	in my case that is not correct :)
  83 Jun 10 08:19:03 <API>	yes, this is the reason I wanted to confirm that
  84 Jun 10 08:19:27 <API>	so who people in this meeting is living in Seville?
  85 Jun 10 08:19:31 <API>	aleiva, danigm ?
  86 Jun 10 08:19:43 <aleiva>	o/
  87 Jun 10 08:20:01 <aleiva>	AFAIK danigm, Juanje and me
  88 Jun 10 08:21:16 <API>	ok, so paraphrasing fer words:
  89 Jun 10 08:21:39 <API>	<fer> yeah, he also wanted some local people from Seville to try to help with the location
  90 Jun 10 08:22:04 <aleiva>	no problem with that
  91 Jun 10 08:23:11 <API>	ok, so you are volunteering I guess
  92 Jun 10 08:23:19 <aleiva>	yes
  93 Jun 10 08:23:23 <API>	try to get in contact with peter korn as he already
  94 Jun 10 08:23:25 <aleiva>	I think that Juanje too
  95 Jun 10 08:23:36 <API>	has coordinating a lot of stuff
  96 Jun 10 08:23:49 <API>	like the place to run the hackfest and so on
  97 Jun 10 08:24:02 <API>	the first thing could be confirm the place ;)
  98 Jun 10 08:24:15 <API>	here http://www.aegis-project.eu/
  99 Jun 10 08:24:17 <API>	just says
 100 Jun 10 08:24:20 <API>	"Seville"
 101 Jun 10 08:24:55 <aleiva>	ok, we'll get in touch with Peter Korn
 102 Jun 10 08:25:45 <API>	ok, we have talked about funding and about local involvement
 103 Jun 10 08:25:45 *	joanie thanks aleiva and juanje for being willing to help with this
 104 Jun 10 08:25:55 <API>	anything else about AEGIS hackfest?
 105 Jun 10 08:26:21 <joanie>	API: we need to figure out a schedule, but we can do that when you and I have some time
 106 Jun 10 08:27:05 <API>	yeah its true, the agenda
 107 Jun 10 08:27:06 *	joanie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
 108 Jun 10 08:27:10 <API>	we could try to 
 109 Jun 10 08:27:11 <API>	ups
 110 Jun 10 08:27:22 <API>	easy go
 111 Jun 10 08:27:46 <API>	well, my idea, for the ones listening could try to create an agenda
 112 Jun 10 08:27:54 <API>	fill live.gnome.org 
 113 Jun 10 08:28:02 <API>	and ask people about it
 114 Jun 10 08:28:17 *	joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y
 115 Jun 10 08:28:17 *	morbo gives channel operator status to joanie
 116 Jun 10 08:28:23 <API>	an easy come
 117 Jun 10 08:28:24 *	joanie sighs
 118 Jun 10 08:28:29 <joanie>	sorry
 119 Jun 10 08:29:08 <aleiva>	API: umh, we know how many people will assist to hackfest?
 120 Jun 10 08:29:08 <API>	np, we haven't advance too much
 121 Jun 10 08:29:22 <API>	aleiva, there are a 
 122 Jun 10 08:29:29 <API>	"hope to attend" section on
 123 Jun 10 08:29:32 <API>	http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010
 124 Jun 10 08:29:48 <API>	BTW: all people, if you hope to attend, please write down your name here
 125 Jun 10 08:30:00 <aleiva>	API: yeah, I know, but if we published this thing maybe some people assit without sign at l.g.o
 126 Jun 10 08:30:04 <API>	ups, you already know ;)
 127 Jun 10 08:30:23 <fer>	has anyone blogged on p.g.o about it?
 128 Jun 10 08:30:33 <API>	fer, 
 129 Jun 10 08:30:34 <API>	http://blogs.igalia.com/apinheiro/2010/06/04/would-you-like-to-go-a-gnome-accessibility-hackfest-in-seville/
 130 Jun 10 08:31:17 *	fer goes for pizza
 131 Jun 10 08:31:31 <joanie>	fer API tends to be very on top of things :-)
 132 Jun 10 08:32:31 *	API hmm, pizza for breakfast
 133 Jun 10 08:32:45 <TheMuso>	If cold, its excellent for breakfast.
 134 Jun 10 08:32:48 <TheMuso>	Also depends on the topping.
 135 Jun 10 08:32:57 <API>	well, anything else about AEGIS/GNOME hackfest?
 136 Jun 10 08:35:55 <API>	three minutes, no answer
 137 Jun 10 08:35:57 <API>	lets move
 138 Jun 10 08:36:26 <API>	slee, anything new about OUTREACH or HFOSS?
 139 Jun 10 08:36:54 <slee>	nothing to report this week 
 140 Jun 10 08:37:55 *	slee just spotter hackfest clashes with AAATE workshop - rats
 141 Jun 10 08:39:23 <joanie>	w.r.t. HFOSS....
 142 Jun 10 08:39:27 *	juanje (~juanje@77.229.151.68) has joined #a11y
 143 Jun 10 08:39:30 <joanie>	are we doing it for sure?
 144 Jun 10 08:39:53 <joanie>	the one thing I'm concerned about is that if we seem flakey and disorganized, we might lose this connection
 145 Jun 10 08:41:20 <slee>	That's a valid concern - I don't know. When is Bryen back in contact?
 146 Jun 10 08:41:55 <API>	probably you should ask Bryen about it
 147 Jun 10 08:42:13 <joanie>	"you" == me?
 148 Jun 10 08:42:24 <joanie>	if so, yeah. Probably so...
 149 Jun 10 08:44:17 *	joanie is done asking questions (sorry)
 150 Jun 10 08:45:56 <API>	slee, you have already tried the second Outreach meeting?
 151 Jun 10 08:46:09 <API>	afaik, you just made one, and trying to organize a second one
 152 Jun 10 08:48:48 <API>	well, no answer ;) just 10 minutes left
 153 Jun 10 08:48:59 <slee>	API yes - we need to arrange a date - I'm swamped with a conference at the mo but will ping
 154 Jun 10 08:48:59 <API>	lets try to move
 155 Jun 10 08:49:01 <API>	ups
 156 Jun 10 08:49:13 <API>	ok
 157 Jun 10 08:49:20 <API>	so lets move
 158 Jun 10 08:49:35 <API>	we can try a quick review for any topics of "the list"
 159 Jun 10 08:49:47 <API>	but if anyone has a better idea
 160 Jun 10 08:50:22 <API>	mgorse, are you here
 161 Jun 10 08:50:29 <API>	did you read last comment in this bug?
 162 Jun 10 08:50:32 <mgorse>	I'm here
 163 Jun 10 08:50:37 <API>	https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=619946#c8
 164 Jun 10 08:53:41 <API>	mgorse, ?
 165 Jun 10 08:55:10 <API>	li, you also answered my original mail about this issue
 166 Jun 10 08:55:17 <API>	do  you have any opinion?
 167 Jun 10 08:55:39 <API>	when I said my original mail, I mean this old mail
 168 Jun 10 08:55:40 *	joanie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
 169 Jun 10 08:55:51 <API>	http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2009-August/msg00019.html
 170 Jun 10 08:56:45 *	joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y
 171 Jun 10 08:56:45 *	morbo gives channel operator status to joanie
 172 Jun 10 08:56:51 <mgorse>	Seems we have two separate problems: the location of the module, and that the way the AtkUtil class is implemented/used can cause problems
 173 Jun 10 08:57:00 <li>	API, I am not in the cc list of this bug
 174 Jun 10 08:57:18 <API>	mgorse, yeah, this is what doffm sumarizes in his answer
 175 Jun 10 08:57:26 <li>	API, let me see the bug first
 176 Jun 10 08:57:34 <API>	li, yeah, just gently asking to read the comment and give any opinion ;)
 177 Jun 10 08:57:35 <API>	thanks
 178 Jun 10 08:57:55 <API>	mgorse, anyway, apart from AtkUtil issues
 179 Jun 10 08:58:08 <API>	being able to find the bridge 
 180 Jun 10 08:58:14 <API>	easily could help things
 181 Jun 10 08:58:38 <API>	as I said in the bug, I really doubt that we could manage
 182 Jun 10 08:58:45 <API>	due manpower, and time constraints
 183 Jun 10 08:58:51 <API>	a revision of the current ATK
 184 Jun 10 08:58:52 *	joanie has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
 185 Jun 10 08:59:19 <TheMuso>	But surely for example, when QT comes along, they will have their own module/hook that will talk to at-spi over dbus, so why is this even an issue?
 186 Jun 10 08:59:29 *	TheMuso hasn't read the full bug yet.
 187 Jun 10 08:59:40 <mgorse>	Would having it in, say, $libdir/atspi make things easier than having it i the gtk directory?
 188 Jun 10 09:00:01 *	joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y
 189 Jun 10 09:00:01 *	morbo gives channel operator status to joanie
 190 Jun 10 09:00:42 <API>	mgorse, not sure, this is one of the reasons I'm asking for opinions ;)
 191 Jun 10 09:00:43 *	joanie has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
 192 Jun 10 09:01:12 <API>	the issue is that we need a proper and easy to find place to find the module
 193 Jun 10 09:01:23 <mgorse>	Seems like we're depending either way on the prefix at build time
 194 Jun 10 09:01:43 <API>	TheMuso, I don't understand your reasoning
 195 Jun 10 09:02:20 <TheMuso>	API: As I said, I haven't read the full bug. I am just wondering why we are considering moving the at kinterface from the GTK modules directory, especially since QT will likely have their own hook
 196 Jun 10 09:02:26 *	joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y
 197 Jun 10 09:02:26 *	morbo gives channel operator status to joanie
 198 Jun 10 09:02:53 <API>	hmm, sorry I'm somewhat disconnected from how Qt is implementing a11y support
 199 Jun 10 09:02:54 *	joanie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
 200 Jun 10 09:03:06 <API>	I suppose that this means that they will not implement ATK
 201 Jun 10 09:03:19 <API>	and one of the reasons of at-spi split into core and atk, right?
 202 Jun 10 09:03:33 <mgorse>	TheMuso: atk toolkits other than GAIL (cally, UiaAtkBridge, FF, need to load the module manually and need to be able to find it
 203 Jun 10 09:03:57 <TheMuso>	mgorse: ah ok that makes sense
 204 Jun 10 09:03:58 <mgorse>	API: yeah, QT has its own bridge, that doffm has worked on
 205 Jun 10 09:04:52 <mgorse>	or, I should say, it is bridging directly to at-spi
 206 Jun 10 09:06:17 <API>	well, mgorse, li if you conclude something, or want to add extra information, 
 207 Jun 10 09:06:29 <API>	I would be very grateful if you add something in the bug
 208 Jun 10 09:06:39 <API>	any idea is welcome
 209 Jun 10 09:06:40 <li>	API, have you tried the GTK_PATH?
 210 Jun 10 09:06:41 <TheMuso>	Anyway, we are out of time.
 211 Jun 10 09:06:51 <API>	li, this is other option
 212 Jun 10 09:07:02 <API>	but you don't have always GTK_PATH set
 213 Jun 10 09:07:44 <API>	in fact
 214 Jun 10 09:07:51 <API>	one of the advantages of use gtk_find_modules
 215 Jun 10 09:08:03 <API>	is that this method already tries GTK_PATH
 216 Jun 10 09:08:17 <API>	I mean that if you want to search for a gtk module
 217 Jun 10 09:08:21 <API>	this method is the ideal one
 218 Jun 10 09:08:37 *	slee has quit (ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431])
 219 Jun 10 09:08:45 <li>	java-atk-wrapper has the similar problem
 220 Jun 10 09:09:01 <li>	the same problem
 221 Jun 10 09:09:28 *	jrocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y
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 224 Jun 10 09:09:49 *	j-rocha is now known as jrocha
 225 Jun 10 09:10:09 <API>	li, it also need to load by hand atk-bridge, guessing where it is?
 226 Jun 10 09:10:35 <li>	yes, currently it gets the location from GTK_PATH
 227 Jun 10 09:10:38 <API>	BTW: people, I can conclude that the meeting is over (10 minutes over time)
 228 Jun 10 09:10:59 <API>	li, so you need to be sure that the environment has set the proper GTK_PATH?
 229 Jun 10 09:11:34 <li>	for now it works for us
 230 Jun 10 09:12:09 <mgorse>	We could set a g_settings key for the location of atk-bridge perhaps
 231 Jun 10 09:12:11 <li>	have you found and exception?
 232 Jun 10 09:12:33 <API>	exception? what do you mean?
 233 Jun 10 09:12:44 <li>	I mean GTK_PATH is not working
 234 Jun 10 09:12:51 <mgorse>	GTK_PATH is unset by default, for me at least, so gtk reverts to using some kind of predefined logic to look for modules
 235 Jun 10 09:13:32 <API>	yeah, this is what I mean
 236 Jun 10 09:13:40 <API>	by default I don't have a GTK_PATH
 237 Jun 10 09:13:56 <API>	we should ensure to set that
 238 Jun 10 09:14:33 *	joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y
 239 Jun 10 09:14:34 *	morbo gives channel operator status to joanie
 240 Jun 10 09:15:29 <API>	here http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/gtk-running.html
 241 Jun 10 09:15:31 <API>	the policy
 242 Jun 10 09:15:37 <API>	(on GTK_PATH description)
 243 Jun 10 09:16:52 <API>	li, you manually set GTK_PATH in your environment?
 244 Jun 10 09:17:16 <li>	no, seems it works on OpenSolaris
 245 Jun 10 09:18:39 <API>	hmm, odd
 246 Jun 10 09:18:45 <API>	anyway, thanks for the hint
 247 Jun 10 09:18:55 <API>	I will try it, 
 248 Jun 10 09:19:08 <API>	although as mgorse said, afaik, it is unset by default
 249 Jun 10 09:19:26 <li>	I will check if I modified something...
 250 Jun 10 09:20:05 *	juanje (~juanje@77.229.151.68) has left #a11y
 251 Jun 10 09:20:20 <li>	maybe a g_settings key as mgorse said?
 252 Jun 10 09:21:51 <API>	li, yes, this is another option
 253 Jun 10 09:22:38 *	rmunoz_ has quit (leaving)
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 255 Jun 10 09:24:16 <API>	well, just another reminder: the meeting is over
 256 Jun 10 09:24:23 <API>	I will try to summarize all this soon
 257 Jun 10 09:24:32 <API>	and uplad it to the minutes section
 258 Jun 10 09:24:43 <API>	thanks all
 259 Jun 10 09:24:44 <joanie>	thanks API!
 260 Jun 10 09:26:03 <li>	thanks API
 261 Jun 10 09:26:13 *	li is now known as li_afk