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   1 May 20 17:02:47 <Bryen>	ok  anyone who isn't here for the meeting, please raise your hand
   2 May 20 17:03:14 *	kmaraas (~kmaraas@78.80-202-74.nextgentel.com) has joined #a11y
   3 May 20 17:03:23 <API>	hand
   4 May 20 17:03:41 *	ndanger (~ndanger@aruba-local.cc.trincoll.edu) has joined #a11y
   5 May 20 17:04:38 *	heidi (~chatzilla@virt61.vnet.wnec.edu) has joined #a11y
   6 May 20 17:04:45 <Bryen>	API,   You're not here?  :-)
   7 May 20 17:04:52 <API>	Bryen: a summary of the outreach meeting?
   8 May 20 17:05:01 <API>	Bryen: I have just returned
   9 May 20 17:05:15 <ryan22>	i was wondering. is there an overview online of what will be discussed at this meeting, or is it just ad-hoc?
  10 May 20 17:05:15 <Bryen>	I can give a brief summary of what we've talked about, sure
  11 May 20 17:05:17 <API>	I missed the meeting
  12 May 20 17:05:25 <API>	outreach one I mean
  13 May 20 17:05:49 <API>	ryan22: by default is a overview of the current status
  14 May 20 17:06:03 <API>	unless someone wanted to point out something in particular
  15 May 20 17:06:16 <API>	right now the main "issue" is gnome 3.0 release
  16 May 20 17:06:22 <ryan22>	ah
  17 May 20 17:06:24 <API>	so the last meeting we reviewed
  18 May 20 17:06:34 <API>	items in
  19 May 20 17:06:36 <API>	this list
  20 May 20 17:06:38 <API>	http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3
  21 May 20 17:07:08 <API>	although normally each meeting (the ones I was present) started with a typical question:
  22 May 20 17:07:16 <API>	someone want to talk about something is specific?
  23 May 20 17:07:18 <API>	someone?
  24 May 20 17:07:21 <ryan22>	yep
  25 May 20 17:07:41 <API>	ok, as the rest of the people seems to be sleeping
  26 May 20 17:07:48 <ryan22>	i wondering if we could move to make the accessibility frameworks less DE independent
  27 May 20 17:08:03 *	slee (~chatzilla@84.12.245.245) has joined #a11y
  28 May 20 17:08:22 <API>	DE independent?
  29 May 20 17:08:22 <ryan22>	my distribution is based on xfce4 and my university' system will be based on it as well
  30 May 20 17:08:57 <ryan22>	my university's system will be a thin client system, so if we use gnome our system requirements will about triple. xfce takes up around 100 MB per user
  31 May 20 17:09:48 <ryan22>	so basically what im proposing is make the guis and frontend less dependent on the gnome frameworks and more dependent on just gtk+
  32 May 20 17:10:02 <ryan22>	the ocra gui is a big problem in this respect
  33 May 20 17:10:03 <Bryen>	I thought AT/SPI works on xfce?
  34 May 20 17:10:12 <ryan22>	it does, but it doesnt
  35 May 20 17:10:19 *	slee sniggers
  36 May 20 17:10:44 <Bryen>	ryan22,   so does the xfce team address a11y issues?
  37 May 20 17:11:17 <Bryen>	For example, KDE and GNOME have been working to bridge the gap by fixing DBUS so that KDE can use GNOME apps natively
  38 May 20 17:11:18 <ryan22>	i will be talking to them to start making at-spi a priority
  39 May 20 17:11:49 <ryan22>	its 95% theres, but there is random stuff such as the alt-tab interface not working over at-api
  40 May 20 17:12:03 <joanie>	ryan22: That's an xfce issue; not a GNOME a11y issue I think
  41 May 20 17:12:12 <ryan22>	definitely
  42 May 20 17:12:52 <Bryen>	tbh, I have not looked at, nor observed, what, if anything XFCE does for a11y
  43 May 20 17:13:18 <ryan22>	however orca requiring alot is an a11y issue. the depencies could probaly be lessened on this so it works seamless with xfce. i, in my distribution, use most of the gnome utilites and they work without a problem in xfce
  44 May 20 17:13:35 <Bryen>	but I would suggest first reaching out to xfce and see where they are at and they can always come visit with us for guidance
  45 May 20 17:13:52 <ryan22>	well ill definately be in contact with them
  46 May 20 17:14:00 <joanie>	ryan22: I'll look, but I'm pretty sure that Orca dependencies are included because Orca needs those things
  47 May 20 17:14:13 <joanie>	ryan22: In which case what you'd require sounds like a stripped down version of Orca
  48 May 20 17:14:14 <ryan22>	the orca command-line works fine
  49 May 20 17:14:24 <joanie>	Orca is not a command-line screen reader
  50 May 20 17:14:28 <ryan22>	thats exactly what i mean
  51 May 20 17:14:41 <ryan22>	but the command-line interface works fine
  52 May 20 17:15:29 <API>	joanie: correct me, but the command-line interface works in a different way that the gui one, right?
  53 May 20 17:15:48 <ryan22>	xfce is very flexible so there probably isnt much work to be on their end to get this stuff working
  54 May 20 17:15:50 <joanie>	I'm a little confused about what cli ryan22 is talking about
  55 May 20 17:16:34 <ryan22>	i can actually start and configure orca via the command-line
  56 May 20 17:16:45 <joanie>	ryan22: okay
  57 May 20 17:16:53 <joanie>	and that isn't working with the gui preferences?
  58 May 20 17:17:02 <ryan22>	but it seems like the orca gui configuration is in th gnome-control-center
  59 May 20 17:17:11 <joanie>	no
  60 May 20 17:17:15 <joanie>	it's part of Orca
  61 May 20 17:17:21 <joanie>	independent of the gnome-control-center
  62 May 20 17:17:29 <joanie>	in fact, we have Orca xfce users
  63 May 20 17:17:41 <joanie>	perhaps the place to talk more about this is with them on the Orca list
  64 May 20 17:18:06 <Bryen>	ryan22,   is orca the only challenge you're facing for your university?
  65 May 20 17:18:29 <ryan22>	nope but getting orca to work would be a great first step
  66 May 20 17:18:51 <Bryen>	then yes,  I would agree with joanie, that the first step should be to communicate on the orca list
  67 May 20 17:18:59 <API>	ryan22: yes I agree with joanie, probably this topic should be talked with calm in the mailing lists, there are a lot of knots here
  68 May 20 17:19:00 <ryan22>	alright
  69 May 20 17:19:31 <API>	ok
  70 May 20 17:19:50 <API>	Bryen: I suppose that a good point now could be a little update of the outreach meeting
  71 May 20 17:20:00 <API>	unless anyone has a better idea
  72 May 20 17:20:06 <Bryen>	you suppose, huh?  :-)
  73 May 20 17:20:59 <Bryen>	well, today's Outreach meeting (the first one ever-really) was attended by SJ, slee, stormy, and me.  (Note the domination of S's?)
  74 May 20 17:21:14 *	prlw1 (~prlw1@quitz.inf.phy.cam.ac.uk) has joined #a11y
  75 May 20 17:21:17 *	API hmm, I have just discovered another english-spanish false friend
  76 May 20 17:22:10 <Bryen>	And we identified a number of areas we need to grow in.  Evangelism, formalizing the structure for student internship programs, and funding to pay for the above.
  77 May 20 17:22:45 <ryan22>	hmm
  78 May 20 17:22:53 <ryan22>	well i can help out with that
  79 May 20 17:22:53 <Bryen>	that's really about as far as we've gotten.   There's clearly so many opportunities for us, and yet, admittedly, so few resources
  80 May 20 17:23:35 <ryan22>	my university is looking at making the accessibility frameworks a core part of of our system
  81 May 20 17:23:54 <Bryen>	ok
  82 May 20 17:24:22 <ryan22>	they will specifically using it to get alumni funding, that i would be more to use to further the aims of a11y
  83 May 20 17:24:47 <ryan22>	i will also be looking at getting the teacher's union aboard the project and too help fund it
  84 May 20 17:25:13 <Bryen>	ryan22,   Well, there's a number of ways you can contribute via funding.
  85 May 20 17:25:18 <ryan22>	the accessibility situation in schools is dire as many students can not get access to the resources they need
  86 May 20 17:25:28 <Bryen>	For example, we are starting to talk about a hackfest at the AEGIS conference in October.
  87 May 20 17:25:44 <Bryen>	funding to get all our hackers together in one place so they can work on this stuff would be awesome.
  88 May 20 17:25:57 <ryan22>	i can also contribute hackers :P
  89 May 20 17:26:00 <Bryen>	and obviously its a ROI for your university
  90 May 20 17:26:14 <ryan22>	the compu sci department needs a raison d'etre
  91 May 20 17:26:20 <ryan22>	and this is a good one
  92 May 20 17:26:26 <slee>	Bryen: AEGIS hackfest is a  great ideas
  93 May 20 17:26:43 <prlw1>	(I'll be at the AEGIS hackfest)
  94 May 20 17:27:08 <Bryen>	slee,   yeah.  Peter contacted us last week to talk about doing a CSUN-like hackfest again at AEGIS just before AEGIS starts.    
  95 May 20 17:27:18 <ryan22>	i ask can ask the university if they would like to fund a group of students to go to it a group
  96 May 20 17:27:21 <slee>	whoot!
  97 May 20 17:27:29 <Bryen>	But obviously, we're in very early stages of figuring out what to do, although joanie has some good ideas for topics for the hackfest
  98 May 20 17:27:56 <slee>	I'va also been asked to present , possibly on GNOME - so perhaps I will go after all :-)
  99 May 20 17:28:08 <prlw1>	(I'd like to see non-python dbus related things, and XINPUT2 - how can we use it?)
 100 May 20 17:28:11 <Bryen>	then I guess we should start start formulating plans for a hackfest  ;-)
 101 May 20 17:28:34 <slee>	joanie: Caribou, Caribou and er Caibou ?
 102 May 20 17:29:08 <joanie>	slee: GNOME 3.0
 103 May 20 17:29:26 <slee>	or is that GNOME 3 ? I get confused
 104 May 20 17:29:27 <joanie>	my concern is that we're not going to be quite ready when it goes out the door
 105 May 20 17:29:37 <API>	slee: dpellicer is here you could ask him about it
 106 May 20 17:29:54 <ryan22>	joanie: im honestly not sure anyone will be
 107 May 20 17:29:57 <joanie>	And what I'd honestly like to do at this proposed hackfest is get some actual work done fixing actual bugs
 108 May 20 17:30:12 <prlw1>	(hence the non-python dbus - standard a11y interface / service names etc)
 109 May 20 17:30:16 <joanie>	with the intent of GNOME 3.0.1 being much more accessible
 110 May 20 17:30:40 <joanie>	ryan22: To be honest, I'm not concerned about others; I'm concerned about us. ;-)
 111 May 20 17:30:41 <Bryen>	+1 to making 3.0 a priority
 112 May 20 17:30:47 <slee>	dpellicer: HI
 113 May 20 17:30:53 <prlw1>	(which means no corba)
 114 May 20 17:30:55 <dpellicer>	hi slee !
 115 May 20 17:30:58 <ryan22>	non-python is good. that means less system resources
 116 May 20 17:31:14 <joanie>	And what *we* need to do is ensure that people with disabilities have the same access to GNOME 3.0 (in whatever state it happens to be)
 117 May 20 17:31:15 <slee>	joanie: yes we did too litle of that last time but what we did was important 
 118 May 20 17:32:05 <prlw1>	The reason for python seems to be python's ability to read idl...
 119 May 20 17:32:47 <joanie>	slee: Not saying what we did in the past wasn't important; merely that AEGIS is happening 2 weeks after the 3.0 release, which seems like a good time to sit down and solve actual, concrete problems while we're all in the same room
 120 May 20 17:33:17 <Bryen>	API,   After this, I have an important subject I need to bring up
 121 May 20 17:33:31 <slee>	joanie: +1
 122 May 20 17:33:34 <API>	Bryen: you have the scepter, you have the power, go on
 123 May 20 17:34:09 <Bryen>	ok let's start planning on discussing the hackfest over the next month (June) so we can identify what our needs are and what resources we have available to make it happen
 124 May 20 17:34:40 <Bryen>	and next topic...
 125 May 20 17:34:48 <Bryen>	without getting into personal details...
 126 May 20 17:35:21 <Bryen>	HFOSS.org internship program begins in two weeks.  and our primary mentor for HFOSS has just informed me today that he has to back out due to a very personal crisis.
 127 May 20 17:35:27 <dpellicer>	slee what do you want to know about caribou?
 128 May 20 17:35:41 <dpellicer>	i'm still working on it
 129 May 20 17:35:57 <slee>	dpellicer: one mo - I want to here Bryen 
 130 May 20 17:36:04 <dpellicer>	ok
 131 May 20 17:36:09 <Bryen>	which means we now have neither a mentor, nor a proposal that will work well.
 132 May 20 17:36:51 <Bryen>	and I need people here to think up good proposals for the HFOSS students to work on and willing to mentor from time to time each week until I think mid-July
 133 May 20 17:37:13 <slee>	Bryen: what was the final proposal?
 134 May 20 17:37:25 <Bryen>	slee,  Mousetrap
 135 May 20 17:37:39 <slee>	oK
 136 May 20 17:37:42 <slee>	dpellicer: that could be your queue :_)
 137 May 20 17:37:47 <prlw1>	(I'd be happy to mentor a student to write a "game mode" for dasher)
 138 May 20 17:37:52 <Bryen>	updating the old modules to the newly-revised modules under MouseTrap
 139 May 20 17:38:19 <slee>	prlw1: yes that was a suggestion I heard before and sounds good. - perhaps you could explain the game mode though
 140 May 20 17:38:29 <Bryen>	yeah...  games?
 141 May 20 17:38:35 <prlw1>	Exactly :-)
 142 May 20 17:38:48 <prlw1>	So, plenty of room for imagination
 143 May 20 17:38:53 <slee>	prlw1: text entry games? or Control
 144 May 20 17:39:03 <prlw1>	The basics is to point an arrow at the place you need to aim at
 145 May 20 17:39:04 <Bryen>	games that improve our skills using Dasher?
 146 May 20 17:39:08 <prlw1>	in order to write something
 147 May 20 17:39:16 <prlw1>	that's right
 148 May 20 17:39:28 <ryan22>	ones of the main software the disability services office here uses is a "dyslexic spell-check" as part of texthelp read and write
 149 May 20 17:39:37 <prlw1>	One main problem is that if you don't *have* to use dasher, you don't have a reason to practice
 150 May 20 17:39:37 <slee>	oh, i see, cool
 151 May 20 17:39:40 <Bryen>	That would be interesting to me, as I still have no clue how to use Dasher, no matter how many times I look at it.  :-)
 152 May 20 17:39:48 <ryan22>	that might be a good thing to work on as well
 153 May 20 17:40:05 <joanie>	I thought Dasher was deprecated
 154 May 20 17:40:06 <slee>	prlw1: yeah, once people get over the cor factor they're often nonplussed
 155 May 20 17:40:10 <joanie>	oh that's gok
 156 May 20 17:40:12 <slee>	a game wouldengage them
 157 May 20 17:40:12 <joanie>	nevermind
 158 May 20 17:40:13 <Bryen>	any other ideas?  Let's have a set of proposals so the students can select from them.
 159 May 20 17:40:39 <ryan22>	enchant or aspell could be to support the "dyslexic spell checker"
 160 May 20 17:40:39 *	slee has been playing with dasher on his iPod
 161 May 20 17:40:48 <Bryen>	joanie,    does Orca need interns this summer?
 162 May 20 17:40:54 <ryan22>	maybe improve the heuristics
 163 May 20 17:40:58 <prlw1>	slee: excellent :-)
 164 May 20 17:41:27 <slee>	prlw1: I need a game to get any good ;-)
 165 May 20 17:41:33 <prlw1>	;-)
 166 May 20 17:41:40 <joanie>	Bryen: I think what might make sense would be something where the students can focus on a discrete task
 167 May 20 17:41:47 <Bryen>	dpellicer,  houw about caribou?  Need interns?
 168 May 20 17:41:51 <joanie>	that is not part of a much larger, broader picture
 169 May 20 17:42:08 <joanie>	nor which requires knowledge about things like non-visual access to computers
 170 May 20 17:42:28 <slee>	dpellicer: there was a lot of discussion about prediction - is that suitable or is it pretty much done?
 171 May 20 17:42:45 <dpellicer>	Bryen, i think not at the moment
 172 May 20 17:43:08 <Bryen>	well I think the hfoss students do have some exposure to the idea of non-visual access.   But yes, we don't want to burden them with huge project, yet at the same time, we want to cultivate them to stick with the project long after their internship is over.
 173 May 20 17:43:25 <prlw1>	game mode for dasher is - that code is opaque - no wonder we basically receive no contributions from others. Plus, for a computer science student, there is the whole "arithemtic coding" and PPM language model side to learn about. But not all mathematics - with a game there would be room for creativity.
 174 May 20 17:43:28 <ryan22>	off-topic: i can get developers to work on dasher and caribou
 175 May 20 17:43:59 <ryan22>	my distribution is a media center so technologies be extremly useful in cases where there isn't keyboard
 176 May 20 17:44:23 <dpellicer>	slee, i didn't care much about prediction, i only use the presage library
 177 May 20 17:44:29 <ryan22>	even if that isn't their original intention
 178 May 20 17:44:45 <jrocha>	eeejay, hi
 179 May 20 17:45:08 <Bryen>	alright, let me put this to the ML and see if we can gather up a few more propsal ideas
 180 May 20 17:45:17 <dpellicer>	all the improvements that anyone can make, will be welcome
 181 May 20 17:45:26 <Bryen>	I like prlw1's proposal, but I want to make sure the students don't feel like they're given only one proposal to choose from.
 182 May 20 17:45:54 <slee>	Bryen: we did collect some ideas for PP on the wiki - smalltasks etc
 183 May 20 17:45:58 <dpellicer>	so i use the prediction that presage offer
 184 May 20 17:46:03 <dpellicer>	nothing else
 185 May 20 17:46:05 <ryan22>	how about the spell checker stuff? improving the heuristics could be a fun project
 186 May 20 17:46:09 <prlw1>	There probably ought to be some easier proposals to choose from ;-)
 187 May 20 17:46:22 <Bryen>	slee,   link?   And ideas are just half the battle,  we need mentors too  :-)
 188 May 20 17:46:52 <ryan22>	we have students here writing programs to translate english into german. that sort of thing would be right up their ally
 189 May 20 17:46:54 <slee>	http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GetInvolved/SmallTasks
 190 May 20 17:47:05 <slee>	http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GetInvolved
 191 May 20 17:47:43 <slee>	and if you have lots of time 
 192 May 20 17:47:45 <slee>	https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=accessibility;query_format=advanced;keywords_type=allwords;bug_status=UNCONFIRMED;bug_status=NEW;bug_status=ASSIGNED;bug_status=REOPENED;bug_status=NEEDINFO
 193 May 20 17:47:59 <joanie>	slee: That raises an interesting question
 194 May 20 17:48:08 <prlw1>	ryan22: AEGIS side note: Bengt is working on a "concept coding framework" (as a plugin for openoffice) I often wonder whether that could be used as a framework for translation, possibly with a dasher front end to choose possible translations with.
 195 May 20 17:48:35 <joanie>	I wonder if a good HFOSS project might be to look from the non-a11y side of things to implement solutions that we need on the a11y side
 196 May 20 17:48:49 <ryan22>	prlwl: that sounds interesting
 197 May 20 17:48:51 <joanie>	In other words, I think we're doing good (more or less) developing on our side
 198 May 20 17:49:08 <joanie>	But we keep smacking up against bugs in the software we're trying to provide access to
 199 May 20 17:49:09 <Bryen>	joanie,  That's definitely the goal on the NSF project we are working on
 200 May 20 17:49:22 <joanie>	Bryen: cool
 201 May 20 17:49:35 <Bryen>	but for HFOSS...  the issue is time is of the essence
 202 May 20 17:49:58 <Bryen>	June 1 the program starts,  next week the students start talking to us, and I'm generally off grid beginning this weekend until June 1  :-(
 203 May 20 17:50:12 <ryan22>	how long would it take to start a new partnership with HFOSS?
 204 May 20 17:50:15 <prlw1>	joanie: "software loadable keyboard" isn't an a11y-only concept, and I think is often provided at the operating system level. We seem to have it at the at-spi level. Maybe XINPUT2 would be the level at which that concept could go, and it definitely the non-a11y side.
 205 May 20 17:50:27 <joanie>	prlw1: cool
 206 May 20 17:50:53 <Bryen>	ryan22,   the partnership exists.  We just need to be sure we have the resources available to work with them.   Our previous resource (mentor) has a personal emergency
 207 May 20 17:51:22 <prlw1>	(joanie: that might make life easier for caribou too)
 208 May 20 17:51:24 <ryan22>	Bryen: i mean my university becoming a official partner of the project
 209 May 20 17:51:54 <Bryen>	ryan22,   You would have to talk to ndanger   he's from HFOSS.  
 210 May 20 17:52:20 <Bryen>	you can read up more about it at hfoss.org
 211 May 20 17:52:21 <ryan22>	cool. i like these meetings as they tell me where to go
 212 May 20 17:52:36 <ryan22>	its hard finding all this stuff on your own
 213 May 20 17:52:57 <Bryen>	yes indeed.    a11y community is huge and extremely vast.
 214 May 20 17:53:11 <ryan22>	so i apologize if i go off at times :P
 215 May 20 17:53:16 <ryan22>	*topic
 216 May 20 17:53:26 <Bryen>	ok so I've said what I needed to say, API.   Let me hand you back the scepter
 217 May 20 17:54:00 <API>	well, IMHO, I think that it would be good to make a summary of this meeting and proposed ideas to the list
 218 May 20 17:54:17 <API>	too many people talking at the same time, I get somewhat lost ;)
 219 May 20 17:54:20 <joanie>	+1 API
 220 May 20 17:54:23 <joanie>	me too
 221 May 20 17:54:34 <API>	well, just 5 minutes left
 222 May 20 17:54:56 <API>	too late for a gnome3.0 items review
 223 May 20 17:55:04 <API>	someone else wants to add something?
 224 May 20 17:55:04 <Bryen>	oops  ;-)
 225 May 20 17:56:33 <API>	ok, nobody talking, we can conclude the meeting 
 226 May 20 17:56:48 <API>	if you want I can make a brief summary of the meeting and send a mail to the list
 227 May 20 17:56:56 <prlw1>	Oh - possibly another idea: If ever someone wants to write a "scanning interface" (highlight rows/columns in sequence and click to select) for non-a11y software, the first step is usually to pop a transparent screen over the entire window to draw the highlights. Then there is the fun and games of passing events on to the correct window underneath. There isn't a nice eg gtk+ interface for this. (android's gesture might be similar)
 228 May 20 17:57:02 <joanie>	thanks API that would be awesome
 229 May 20 17:57:26 <prlw1>	sorry - took too long to type - I should have used dasher...
 230 May 20 17:57:43 *	dpellicer has quit (Saliendo)
 231 May 20 17:58:09 *	heidi has quit (ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431])
 232 May 20 17:58:22 <slee>	prlw1: - http://jambu.fullmeasure.co.uk/
 233 May 20 17:58:43 <slee>	first pass was an overlay then we changed to direct in in app selection
 234 May 20 17:58:51 <slee>	it needs TLC
 235 May 20 18:00:41 <prlw1>	guessing: it's written in python because it needs to find the e.g. buttons using at-spi?
 236 May 20 18:00:59 <prlw1>	further guessing: then essentially you write to the gdk screen of display?
 237 May 20 18:01:07 <prlw1>	which is a bit like xor?
 238 May 20 18:01:41 <prlw1>	which means it is then that drawing is ok but adding widgets isn't?
 239 May 20 18:01:43 <slee>	prlw1: yep, yep - svg overlay
 240 May 20 18:02:32 <prlw1>	I think some sort of widget *w = overlay_new() would make life easier ;-)
 241 May 20 18:02:33 <slee>	oh, no actually a overlay window and draw on that
 242 May 20 18:02:39 <ryan22>	Bryen: i just sent a email about HFLOSS to the heads of the science faculty and the office of the president. i hope something comes of it.
 243 May 20 18:02:39 <prlw1>	really!
 244 May 20 18:03:15 <prlw1>	in which case thank you for the tip! downloading code now!
 245 May 20 18:03:36 <API>	prlw1: one question, after your comments
 246 May 20 18:03:51 <API>	this mean that you miss any C-bindings to at-spi?
 247 May 20 18:03:56 <ryan22>	im also extremely intreated in the frameworks are guys are making, in terms of caribou and dasher
 248 May 20 18:04:10 <slee>	prlw1: don't kick me if I got confused, it's some time since I rummaged there
 249 May 20 18:04:20 <prlw1>	slee: don't worry ;-)
 250 May 20 18:04:25 <ryan22>	these frameworks would be extremely useful on alternate devices such as tablets and media centers
 251 May 20 18:04:36 <ryan22>	i will be staying in contact ;)
 252 May 20 18:05:23 <ryan22>	im starting a company where our main products will be a full linux based tablet and media center
 253 May 20 18:05:55 <ryan22>	though frameworks will come in handy ;)
 254 May 20 18:06:15 <ryan22>	*those
 255 May 20 18:06:26 <prlw1>	API: I'll have another go, but at the useability hackfest in February, I just tried to write a quick C programme which uses libdbus to simply list the applications which registered with registryd v2. I failed! Mainly I think because of documentation. So, it isn't that I need C bindings, but I should be able to get the same answer as orca -l.
 256 May 20 18:06:58 <Bryen>	ok I'm going to get going now.  Thanks to you all, and thanks API for running the meeting.
 257 May 20 18:07:18 <Bryen>	I may/may not be able to make the next 2-3 meetings. Just FYI, but I'll do my best to stay abreast of everything.
 258 May 20 18:07:18 <API>	orca is using python bindings, this is the reason I asked if you are missing C-bindings
 259 May 20 18:07:22 *	rmunoz has quit (leaving)
 260 May 20 18:07:22 <slee>	Bryen: everyone cya all
 261 May 20 18:07:25 <API>	Bryen: you are welcome
 262 May 20 18:07:55 <prlw1>	API: I know - but by "binding" I take it you mean "handy C function call wrappers to the underlying dbus calls with the appropriate service names plugged in"
 263 May 20 18:08:18 <API>	yeah, good definition
 264 May 20 18:08:18 <prlw1>	It should (given documentation) be possible to just query dbus directly.
 265 May 20 18:08:47 <prlw1>	and it seems that the python freebie is that it can load the .idl with the service name definitions
 266 May 20 18:09:01 <API>	well, you can use your work here to improve the documentation ;)
 267 May 20 18:09:07 <API>	it would be awesome
 268 May 20 18:09:10 <ryan22>	goodbye i need to take off today. i learn alot. thanks
 269 May 20 18:09:18 <ryan22>	*learnt
 270 May 20 18:09:34 <prlw1>	Indeed - but I need help from "those who know"
 271 May 20 18:09:45 <prlw1>	I suppose I'll have another bash at it...
 272 May 20 18:09:59 <joanie>	Docs? We don't need no stinkin' docs. ;-) ;-)
 273 May 20 18:10:17 <prlw1>	:-) "If it was hard to write, it should be hard to read" :-)
 274 May 20 18:10:42 <joanie>	In my day we wrote code on stone tablets, walking up the hill both ways in the snow. And we were grateful. Docs.... Sheesh. :-P
 275 May 20 18:11:03 <prlw1>	For that matter, is there some sort of "IANA" equivalent for DBUS service / interface names?
 276 May 20 18:11:06 *	slee has quit (ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431])
 277 May 20 18:11:10 <Bryen>	prlw1,   BTW,  are you on the a11y mailing list?
 278 May 20 18:11:15 <prlw1>	Yes!
 279 May 20 18:11:38 <Bryen>	prlw1,   ok   when I post about HFOSS proposals today, respond to it, so I have your email and contact info handy
 280 May 20 18:12:02 <prlw1>	OK - prlw1@cam.ac.uk Patrick Welche
 281 May 20 18:12:12 <Bryen>	thanks!
 282 May 20 18:12:57 *	ryan22 (~ryan22@dsl-66-225-162-63.vianet.ca) has left #a11y
 283 May 20 18:13:06 <mgorse>	prlw1: at-spi2-core/xml has some of what you'd need
 284 May 20 18:13:40 <prlw1>	Yay! mgorse!
 285 May 20 18:14:04 <prlw1>	So, what should I do to get my configure.ac patches applied?
 286 May 20 18:14:14 <prlw1>	Submit to bugzilla?
 287 May 20 18:14:37 <prlw1>	And as you are one of "those who know", is this a good place to find you, and when?
 288 May 20 18:14:53 <mgorse>	prlw1: Oh; right. Sure. Or have you already done that?
 289 May 20 18:15:03 <prlw1>	Nope - just the mailing list.
 290 May 20 18:15:41 <prlw1>	I suppose I could try it on ubuntu 10.04 now that we have it installed just to check....
 291 May 20 18:18:22 <mgorse>	prlw1: Yeah; I remember seeing an email from you a while ago but can't find it now. I'll look if you email or file a bu
 292 May 20 18:18:25 <mgorse>	s/bu/bug/
 293 May 20 18:19:17 <prlw1>	OK - I'll submit a bug... (I seem to remember that I have another "improvement" on another laptop)
 294 May 20 18:19:28 <mgorse>	Thanks
 295 May 20 18:19:49 <prlw1>	Could we "meet" sometime next week?
 296 May 20 18:20:24 <mgorse>	I'm usually in here during the day
 297 May 20 18:21:05 <prlw1>	Say 11 on Tuesday? That gives me time to refresh my memory...
 298 May 20 18:21:10 <prlw1>	(11 BST)
 299 May 20 18:21:28 <prlw1>	(I'm assuming you're in the UK?)
 300 May 20 18:21:45 Python interface unloaded
 301 May 20 18:21:45 Tcl interface unloaded
 302 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 20 18:21:45 2010

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