1 * A conversar em #webhackers
   2 * A conversar em #webhackers
   3 * speedbreeze (~jonathan@corp.aton.com) entrou em #webhackers
   4 * A conversar em #webhackers
   5 * csenger saiu (bye)
   6 * shaunm saiu (Client exiting)
   7  
   8 * Loaded log from Fri May 29 22:42:43 2009
   9  
  10 * A conversar em #webhackers
  11 <lucasr_> andreasn, csenger jensens, speedbreeze, ping
  12 <csenger> hi lucasr_ 
  13 <lucasr_> sorry for being late
  14 <lucasr_> took wrong tube back home
  15 <lucasr_> :-/
  16 <lucasr_> anyway, who's there?
  17 <lucasr_> andreasn, there?
  18 <lucasr_> jensens, csenger?
  19 <csenger> your first (except me and andreasn) if my connection isn't totally borked
  20 <andreasn> yes
  21 <lucasr_> I should have sent this reminder on friday
  22 <lucasr_> not on sunday
  23 <csenger> lucasr, andreasn short question: do you see me typing?
  24 <andreasn> yes
  25 <lucasr_> csenger, yep
  26 <lucasr_> ok
  27 <lucasr_> let's start
  28 <lucasr_> agenda is:
  29 <lucasr_> - Content status update
  30 <lucasr_> - Design status update
  31 <lucasr_> - CMS status update
  32 <lucasr_> - Test website deployment status update
  33 <lucasr_> - Plan for the design implementation in Plone
  34 <lucasr_> - Discuss any blockers on our current tasks
  35 <lucasr_> - Anything else?
  36 <andreasn> looks good to me
  37 <lucasr_> ok
  38 <csenger> me too
  39 <lucasr_> paul has given an update on content
  40 <lucasr_> claus has been moved most of existing content to the wiki
  41 <lucasr_> I think all existing content actually
  42 <lucasr_> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/TwoPointTwentyseven/Content#head-45e2743e1d043e96643b5750e92409896dd35fb6
  43 <lucasr_> he also updated the table to have urls
  44 <lucasr_> to make it easier for plone and content people to know where things will be in the website
  45 * davi-lima (~davi-lima@189.71.230.9) entrou em #webhackers
  46 <lucasr_> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/TwoPointTwentyseven/Content#head-b3f35f41481fac92825b0a812964e7d73bfc0dcf
  47 <lucasr_> so, I think content is on track
  48 <csenger> ah, w.g.o/desktop moved to w.g.o/products/desktop - that's goot
  49 <csenger> s/goot/good/
  50 <lucasr_> csenger, yeah
  51 <lucasr_> for next release they'll focus on front page, about and contact
  52 <lucasr_> of which we have some content already
  53 <lucasr_> nice
  54 <lucasr_> ok, next: Design status update
  55 <lucasr_> andreasn?
  56 <andreasn> yes
  57 <lucasr_> status?
  58 <andreasn> hold on
  59 <andreasn> uploading
  60 <lucasr_> ok
  61 * amaneiro (~andres_ma@83.57.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) entrou em #webhackers
  62 <andreasn> right, so while I'm doing that
  63 <andreasn> design is going forward in good pace
  64 <andreasn> pretty much done with the base and working on example sections with front page, about and contact
  65 <lucasr_> andreasn, you think you'll be able to send final version on wednesday then?
  66 <andreasn> hopefully
  67 <lucasr_> andreasn, cool
  68 <andreasn> file:///home/andreas/Dropbox/gnome/gnome.org-implementation/code/page.html
  69 <lucasr_> andreasn, local uri? :-)
  70 <andreasn> oh, sorry
  71 <andreasn> http://www.andreasn.se/diverse/temp/gnome.org-design/template.html
  72 <andreasn> http://www.andreasn.se/diverse/temp/gnome.org-design/page.html
  73 <andreasn> the top navigation elements should go in the center as on the first page too
  74 <speedbreeze> Is there any way I could help you out on the design work?
  75 <csenger> speedbreeze, hi :-)
  76 <speedbreeze> csenger: hi!
  77 <lucasr_> andreasn, missing some example content right?
  78 <andreasn> not right now, but one thing I know we'll need further down the road is bottom illustrations and illustrations for the articles
  79 <andreasn> lucasr, yes
  80 <lucasr_> andreasn, ok
  81 <andreasn> it's a quick cut and paste job from the wiki
  82 <lucasr_> andreasn, suggest you to add some future notes on http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/TwoPointTwentyseven/Design
  83 <andreasn> sure
  84 <lucasr_> andreasn, one thing it's not clear to me is
  85 <lucasr_> andreasn, what should go on the title beside the logo
  86 <lucasr_> andreasn, example:
  87 <andreasn> http://www.andreasn.se/diverse/temp/gnome.org-design/foundation.html
  88 <lucasr_> speedbreeze, design on plone or design design? :-)
  89 <speedbreeze> lucasr_: both
  90 <lucasr_> speedbreeze, for plone stuff, you should probably talk to csenger and jensens
  91 <andreasn> lucasr, so GNOME [stuff]
  92 <lucasr_> speedbreeze, for design stuff, talk to andreasn
  93 <lucasr_> speedbreeze, we're going to discuss how to proceed with the implementation of the design in plone today
  94 <speedbreeze> lucasr_: cool
  95 <lucasr_> andreasn, so, in case of foundation/elections, what would go in the title?
  96 <csenger> andreasn, the normal site title beside the logo will break the flow fast with this design - not much space
  97 <lucasr_> andreasn, Foundation? Elections?
  98 <andreasn> Foundation I would say
  99 <lucasr_> andreasn, I mean, there's section title and page title, right?
 100 <andreasn> yes
 101 <lucasr_> in http://www.andreasn.se/diverse/temp/gnome.org-design/foundation.html
 102 <lucasr_> andreasn, Foundation is the section title and Introduction is the page title
 103 <lucasr_> andreasn, right?
 104 <andreasn> yes
 105 <lucasr_> andreasn, ok
 106 <lucasr_> csenger, any questions about the design?
 107 <andreasn> in case it don't work out, we can just have it say "GNOME The free desktop" all over the place
 108 <lucasr_> andreasn, I guess the footer image should randomize between the ones in http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/TwoPointTwentyseven/Design?
 109 <lucasr_> andreasn, hmm, I like your proposal as is
 110 <lucasr_> andreasn, but yes, let's see if works
 111 <andreasn> lucasr, my thinking was different footers for different sections if possible
 112 <andreasn> will need lots of footers though
 113 <lucasr_> csenger, simple to do that (different footers for different sections)?
 114 <andreasn> so Friends of GNOME would have a special footer, Bugzilla would have a special footer, wiki would have one etc.
 115 <davi-lima> how many? we have 3 already :)
 116 <andreasn> davi-lima, 20? :)
 117 <davi-lima> uh-oh
 118 <lucasr_> we can probably use the three we have
 119 <lucasr_> and add more later
 120 <andreasn> no, not really, 4-5 would be enough really
 121 <csenger> andreasn, so the 1st level section is in the horizontal navigation bar and the second level section name beside the logo and in the vertical navigation box?
 122 <davi-lima> random rotation would be nice but a little download consuming, consider that
 123 <andreasn> yeah
 124 <lucasr_> andreasn, gave up on the starts on the right menu?
 125 <andreasn> starts?
 126 <andreasn> oh, stars
 127 <andreasn> well, I'm not sure if we'll have them or not, will have to ask vdepizzol what he things
 128 <lucasr_> yeah
 129 <lucasr_> ok
 130 <andreasn> I don't have any preference for any over the other
 131 <andreasn> and it's easy to add
 132 <andreasn> just a custom list-style-image
 133 <csenger> lucasr, yes, changing footers are doable. Will that be recognized by users? They have to be very flexible to explore the footer every time they change the section. 
 134 <andreasn> crap, need to run very very soon
 135 <andreasn> anything urgent or especially important?
 136 <lucasr_> andreasn, ok, let's just discuss on how to implement the design on plone
 137 <lucasr_> csenger, is the html/css pages enough for you?
 138 <csenger> andreasn, lucasr there are some more page elements you should consider: Link to sitemap, last change date, breadcrumbs, maybe some more
 139 <lucasr_> csenger, do we really need breadcrumbs?
 140 <andreasn> csenger, I'll look into them. Not sure we need a breadcrumb either
 141 <lucasr_> csenger, I think we'll have have only two levels of content
 142 <andreasn> it's getting too flooded in navigation anyway
 143 <csenger> lucasr_, andreasn I can't tell as I did not explore gnomes IA
 144 <davi-lima> i would say they're usually very nice.. unless they clutter around  (what is not seeming to happen already)
 145 <csenger> if it goes deeper than 3 levels, maybe
 146 <lucasr_> davi-lima, breadcrumbs?
 147 <davi-lima> yeah, i think they're most likely to help than other way around
 148 <csenger> just wanted to offer them
 149 <lucasr_> ok
 150 <lucasr_> csenger, maybe something to consider on design
 151 <andreasn> my intention with the look & feel is a very clean design, so I'm very hesitant to more elements, even if they help
 152 <andreasn> (to a degree)
 153 <andreasn> I'll look into it though
 154 <lucasr_> andreasn, ok, thanks
 155 <davi-lima> andreasn, ok then.. turning off breadcrumbs is a quick through-the-web switch in plone, we might turn it when we get to 3 levels
 156 <andreasn> davi-lima, good to hear
 157 <lucasr_> ok
 158 <lucasr_> anything else from design?
 159 <davi-lima> :) just have to access site/@@manage-viewlets and click show/hide
 160 <csenger> I was thinking about if this minimal design will guide through the content, but I did not explore it.
 161 <csenger> davi-lima, this leads to the theming approach.
 162 <davi-lima> andreasn, but maybe you should consider that styling now for the case it happens in a year and you're not so close to the project, it's better than to see sth not very connected to your design, believe me =)
 163 <andreasn> need to run now, bye all, something urgent came up :(
 164 <davi-lima> csenger, are you thinking about deliverance? =)
 165 <csenger> we think about theming with deliverance. We take the html mockups as templates and inject parts of plone into it.
 166 <andreasn> davi-lima, yeah, I'll make room for it in case it turns out we need it
 167 <davi-lima> nice!!
 168 <davi-lima> csenger, i have no experience but a lot of will on that =)
 169 <lucasr_> andreasn, go go go
 170 <lucasr_> andreasn, thanks
 171 <csenger> pros: faster (to develop and to deliver as the html is leaner). cons: we loose some of plones flexibility and have to have an eye on it
 172 <davi-lima> which kind of flexibility?
 173 <csenger> andreasn, yeah, thanks. good design 
 174 * vdepizzol (bd16c112@webchat.mibbit.com) entrou em #webhackers
 175 <davi-lima> andreasn, indeed very clean 'n' nice stuff
 176 * vdepizzol quite late
 177 <csenger> davi-lima, if we choose to tight selectors, thinks like @@manage-viewlets don't work anymore. (it's generally hard to get those things to work)
 178 <lucasr_> vdepizzol, hey
 179 <lucasr_> vdepizzol, andreasn just gave an update on the design
 180 <vdepizzol> lucasr_: ok :)
 181 <lucasr_> csenger, could you just give an update on cms stuff before we move on to theming?
 182 <csenger> ok.
 183 <davi-lima> csenger, wouldnt be possible to have those urls on the vanilla plone interface?
 184 <davi-lima> sorry
 185 <davi-lima> question delayed =)
 186 <csenger> the content types are complete feature wise. The rest is theming.
 187 <lucasr_> csenger, ok
 188 <lucasr_> csenger, front page?
 189 <lucasr_> csenger, waiting for jensens to take action?
 190 <csenger> thethe (johannes) will implement the front-page tomorrow.
 191 <lucasr_> csenger, ok, cool
 192 <lucasr_> csenger, test website to be deployed tomorrow?
 193 <csenger> is the content of the boxes on the frontpage fixed now? rss feeds?, other dynamic content?
 194 <lucasr_> csenger, not yet
 195 <lucasr_> csenger, one of them will definitely be news
 196 <csenger> managed inside plone or aggregated?
 197 <lucasr_> csenger, inside plone
 198 <lucasr_> csenger, the other is events
 199 <lucasr_> csenger, managed in plone
 200 <lucasr_> csenger, the third is still undecided
 201 <lucasr_> csenger, a placeholder is ok at this point
 202 <csenger> ok, both are mostly core functionallity. 
 203 <csenger> we'll leave an empty box.
 204 <lucasr_> csenger, ok
 205 <lucasr_> ok
 206 <lucasr_> let's move to theming
 207 <csenger> alexandro will deployment a test instance on socket tomorrow. I be there to assist him 
 208 <lucasr_> csenger, ok
 209 <lucasr_> davi-lima, speedbreeze, interesting in helping with theming?
 210 <csenger> we will work on continous updates to get them to work on wednesday
 211 <speedbreeze> lucasr_: Sure
 212 <lucasr_> csenger, is there a way to distribute some theming tasks to speedbreeze and davi-lima?
 213 <lucasr_> csenger, more volunteers is always nice :-)
 214 <csenger> lucasr, so the idea is to use deliverance. it takes the templates andreas showed and injects selected parts of plone's html into it.
 215 <lucasr_> csenger, ok
 216 <csenger> yes, there are different kinds of work
 217 <lucasr_> csenger, could you 1. write some notes about theming in http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/Plone/Implementation?
 218 <lucasr_> 2. send this proposal to gnome-web-list?
 219 <lucasr_> this way others can comment on it
 220 <lucasr_> davi-lima, speedbreeze, suggest you to subscribe to gnome-web-list
 221 <lucasr_> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-web-list/
 222 <lucasr_> oops
 223 <lucasr_> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-web-list
 224 <davi-lima> lucasr, i am subscribed already
 225 <lucasr_> csenger, for next milestone (i.e. not before wednesday), could you send a list of tasks around theming?
 226 <lucasr_> csenger, this way davi-lima, speedbreeze and maybe others can contribute too
 227 <csenger> okay, there is a more developer oriented task to write themin rules, necessarey css work and the rest (polish, images, etc.)
 228 <csenger> I post the details to the list.
 229 <lucasr_> csenger, cool
 230 <lucasr_> ok
 231 <lucasr_> csenger, anything else for this meeting?
 232 <lucasr_> csenger, it would be nice if jensens was here to discuss i18n
 233 <csenger> bad news is that we have quite some delays this milestone.
 234 <speedbreeze> csenger, lucasr_: what coding guidelines are we using?
 235 <csenger> lucasr, talked to him via mail
 236 <lucasr_> csenger, it's not a problem to delay a couple days
 237 <lucasr_> csenger, the important thing is to have things generally on track
 238 <csenger> he want's to implement the syncing of translations inside plone this week. I will join and write the webservice.
 239 <lucasr_> csenger, great
 240 <csenger> lucasr_, did you move i18n to a later milestone already?
 241 <lucasr_> csenger, i18n is for July 29
 242 <lucasr_> csenger, still have plenty of time
 243 <csenger> lucasr_, than we have not delay ;-)
 244 <lucasr_> csenger, yeah, we're on track :-)
 245 <lucasr_> csenger, I knew that i18n would take more time
 246 <lucasr_> csenger, so I put it on later milestones
 247 <lucasr_> speedbreeze, in plone?
 248 <lucasr_> speedbreeze, ask csenger :-)
 249 <lucasr_> ok
 250 <lucasr_> I think we're done
 251 <lucasr_> csenger, ah, don't forget to document the i18n stuff on the wiki
 252 <csenger> jensens and I decided to implement the api first (we have a good idea now - we hope) and ask around the gnome doc utils developers to implement their stuff then.
 253 <lucasr_> csenger, makes sense
 254 <lucasr_> I'll write up the minutes and send to mailing list
 255 <lucasr_> gotta go now
 256 <csenger> speedbreeze, we use the normal plone guidelines: good(tm) tested code conforming PEP8. No changelog anymore
 257 <lucasr_> csenger, davi-lima, andreasn, vdepizzol, speedbreeze, thanks a lot for showing up
 258 <speedbreeze> csenger: really? no changelogs?
 259 <davi-lima> you're welcome, nice being here =)
 260 <speedbreeze> csenger: awesome
 261 <lucasr_> night all!
 262 <speedbreeze> lucasr_: bye
 263 <csenger> lucasr, night